Logic Pro X and accessibility
Hello, someone using logic pro x 10.3.2 know how acceding alkemy? Thank you nin advanced.
As far as I know, its vhry accessible
I have heard that logic pro can be used by blind users. but, is that true ???
I posted in another aged thread, but I will post here too. I am wondering if Logic Pro X version 10.4+ is accessible and how much so. Do any tutorials or guides exist written with VoiceOver users in mind? I need to begin to embark on the long journey to master Logic Pro X as much as possible. I purchased the education bundle days back after I received my AKG K872 master reference closed-back headphones, Rupert Neve Designs RNHP 1-CH Precision Headphone Amplifier, and Mogami cable to connect the little beast of a box. All this is so I can begin to produce others' material, but before that I need to have an accessible digital audio workstation.
Check out Icandothisthing.com, blindlogic.com, and A Google group called logic Accessibility. Good luck.
Thanks. I will definitely learn what I can from those websites.
Far as accessibility goes, its not 100% accessible, there's still things you can't do, but on the other hand, there's so much you can do. I'd say its worth the $200 you have to spend, and the devs are constantly adding new features and making things more accessible. Sometimes they break stuff, but they're pretty responsive if enough of us send e-mails and call the accessibility line. I used to use GarageBand, but once I bought logic, and enabled all of the advanced features, I deleted GarageBand straight away, and never looked back. You get quite the pandora's box of sounds, a good fifty gig plus, and you can always add your own in so many different ways. From searching presets for synths and audio plugins, or samples for the ESX24 sampler on the interwebs, to buying third party plugins, the possibilities are limitless. Well... As limitless as your pockets can handle, of course. For the most part, you are able to edit the parameters in the stock plugins, so you can tweak to your hearts content. Weather its changing the sound of a synth, to making a crazy reverb, to adding notes to an autotune scale that you perhaps have sung but aren't normally present in that scale, you can do with ease. There is a bit of a learning curve, but there are resources out there to help you with any questions you may have. Google groups, websites, a what's App group, even.
Another accessible DAW for the Mac is <a href="http://www.reaper.fm">Reaper</a>, which is made accessible through <a href="https://github.com/jcsteh/osara">the Osara extension</a>. If you want a course in learning to use it, the Cisco Academy for the Vision Impaired has made their audio courses freely available, but with the expectation that you will make a donation. In their courses, they use Reaper with NVDA, but the concepts should be quite similar. <a href="http://wiki.cucat.org/pmwiki.php/Main/AudioInsAndOuts">You can access the courses here.</a>
I did notice some unlabelled buttons in a certain place in the software. I hope those receive labels sooner than later. It is difficult not to be overwhelmed due to the complexity of the entire programme as a whole.
Thanks for that; I will read about Reaper. I never heard of Osara. Is it an extension for Reaper specifically, or does it assist with more than Reaper?
Oh yeah, like I said, you can't do everything yet, and some buttons, are indeed unlabeled. The AutoDrummer being glaringly obvious. :D. I do hope they add labels to them soon, perhaps I'll send them another video detailing a lot of this stuff.
Osara stands for "Open-source accessibility for the Reaper application". Its purpose is to make Reaper more accessible and usable with VoiceOver.
I'm going to do my absolute best to stay unbiased in this as much as I can, given the fact that I am a professional audio engineer who does this stuff for a living every day darn near.
OK, is Logic accessible? The short answer, yes. The long answer, yes, and no. It really truly depends on what you're wanting to do with it. I know that might sound like a stereo typical answer from someone who just doesn't wanna knock the application, but hear me out on this, please, I beg of you. Remember. I'm trying to be unbiased here, so cut me a little slack. Here's the thing...
Logic is very, and I do mean, very! accessible. The problem is, it doesn't really in my opinion live up to its name. It's definitely not, in my personal opinion, and by the way here, that's key, in *my!* opinion, maybe not in others', very logical. I used Logic for about a half a year, and though I managed to finally get the hang of things for the most part, I recall countless times calling the Pro Apps department at Apple, them not knowing what the hell I was talking about when trying to explain things with Voiceover concepts, then calling Accessibility, and them knowing the Voiceover termanology, but nothing at all about Logic. I finally found a rep who worked, and probably still does work in the Accessibility department, although I've not gotten him in ages. Anyway, he just so happened to be a Logic user, and knew the DAW pretty well. I won't quote his name, as I don't know he'd wanna be recognized so publicly, but, he kind a broke a golden rule of Apple that is a major major no no for them. He not only gave me his personal (not work) gmail e-mail address, but he also gave me his personal, (again not work) cell number, and even friended me on Facebook. Anyway, my point is, he and I got to talking, and basically off shift, he worked night after night with me once he'd put his little ones down for bed. Sometimes, we spent up to 2 in the morning my time, just going through things together. I can assure you all though, had it not been for him, I probably never would have learned things. To me, it seems like most of the things you have to do are very very tedious, and the workflow requires a lot of really round-about willy milly ways of doing things. For example, I needed to cut some breath noise out of a vocal track. In ProTools, or for that mind in Reaper, I was able to do this in under 5 minutes by far. Just to see the comparison, I remember loading those stems up in Logic, trying the same thing, and it took me almost 30 minutes. Suffice it to say, I did it, but it was not practical at all. With me having clients who pay by the hour, they're not gonna want to sit here waisting their money while I'm fiddle fudgeing around trying to learn how to get things done, or, actually perform the task. Time is not only of the essence, but is also money now adays. Clients wanna just get in there, produce their work, and get it mixed/masterwed, and then get out. I'll admit ProTools is about $400 more than Logic, OK, I'll grant you that, and I'll even grant you that most people don't have that type dough to throw around. Trust me guys... I get it! Really I do! ProTools is ab, suh, lootly! not for everyone! But, if you are really serious, and I do mean serious, about producing your own stuff, or other people's, trust me when I say, I feel you'll find ProTools to have a much easier, and much simpeler workflow. As far as Reaper, I totally agree, that if you're looking for something inexpensive however that can do practically everything darn near that both Logic, and ProTools can do, and you want something that is very accessible, and even is cross platformed, then Reaper is the way to go! It's only 60 bucks, and they have a free 60, I think it is, day trial! Another site to check out, if you want something specifically for Reaper on the mac side with Voiceover is: http://audio.pizza. Don't ask. I have no idea why he used that for the address, but that's what it is. Note, no www in the above address. I've used Reaper, and love it on both platforms, Windows, and the Mac. So, yes. I totally second that. Reaper is awesome! http://www.reaper.fm . I think Logic definitely could work, and does work for some people, don't get me wrong, but I'm just here to warn you now, once you get it, it's great, but be mindful that there is quite a steap learning curve. Now, if you're used to Garageband, then you'll probably be just fine, to be totally fair here, as think of Logic as basically a really souped up version of Garageband. More effects, more plugins, more instruments, access to the whole Alcony library of synths/loops, etc. Really though, that's the biggest thing. Yeah, there're some other things, but that's really the jist of it. Feel free to ask, if you have any more questions. I'll keep an eye on this thread for a few days.
Well damn, there is my answer. I hoped to hear from a fellow audio cat. Thanks for the in-depth explanation. Considering you had that personal level of training, it is not likely I will understand Logic equally well. I heard Pro Tools is accessible on Mac OS, but I also heard it is not. If it is more accessible with VoiceOver than Logic Pro, I will sho' nuff take the time to check out Pro Tools. I tend to stay away from low-end software, and I have a feeling Reaper is on the low end of the spectrum for Mac digital audio workstations. If Pro Tools is the end game for a veteran Mac OS and VoiceOver user, I will ring my consultant at Sweetwater and put that and an iLock on the card. Aside from the iLock [for simplicity of licensing akin to my JAWS For Windows dongle], is there anything I as a blind Mac OS user should purchase to make use of Pro Tools more easy, hassle-free, et cetera?
Perhaps it would be most helpful if you told us exactly what you want to use the software for? For all we know, reaper or garage band Might be exactly what you need.
Reaper definitely isn't as "low-end" as you might believe. In fact, there really aren't many features unique to ProTools that would justify several hundred dollars more than Reaper. At least trial Reaper first so you can see if it meets your needs.
I agree. Logic may be a bit over kill, but not knowing more specifics, it's kind a hard to say. Smile.
I didn't for even one second mean to imply that Reaper was low end! If it came across that way, I apologize profusely. That is absolutely not! what I'm saying, nor is it what I wish to convey. Let me be very forward coming on that fact! Let me see if I can rephrase... What I meant was, ProTools is extremely good for what it does. I chose it, as frankly, arguing or not, it is the industry standard at this time. Does that mean there are not any studios out there using Reaper? Of course not! There are probably quite a few, both home/home/consumer grade, as well as really big time stuff. Sigh... All that I was trying to say was, both have their weaknesses and their plusses. I stated flat out that ProTools wasn't for everyone. And I totally agree, ProTools might not be the best sollution here. Hecvk! Logic! may not even be the best sollution here. I, don't, know'w'w! And, I won't know! until the original poster gives some more detail of exactly what they're trying to do. For me, I need to stay industry standard being that I'm doing this full blown professionally, and choose to stay with what is considered standard 90% of cases. Now that being said, I totally agree with you... Reaper is a darn good product, and definitely is way more powerful than just your average run of the mill DAW. I would never ever ever want to turn anyone away from using it! Make that incredibly clear! Why do you think I posted those link resources? I'm saying this more for the original poster's benefit. So, please don't take this with the wrong tone. This isn't at all meant to be defensive to your post, though I could easily see it being interpreted that way. I'm only trying to state that both options are very feezable as far as accessibility goes. If you want something a bit cheaper, and don't really have a concern about industry standard protocol, then yes! Reaper absolutely would be a fabulous sollution. Heck! I use it here some in my own studio! I never meant to imply that it's not good. It's actually excellent! I'm simply just giving options, in case the initial poster finds that logic winds up in the longrun not fitting their needs after all. I totally agree to give Reaper a look. But, I don't think we should give, and I'm not saying you're doing so, the impression that PT isn't a good sollution. Is it more expensive? Yes. But, the thing is, If I take a Reaper project into most studios, and say, I'm working on a track, can we load this up and let me record more of the parts here in your studio with your hardware setup? Most studios are gonna look at the folder structure, and be like, what the heck type files are these? Reaper? What's that? Or if they do know, they'll usually tell you, oh, we don't have Reaper. Do you have the unprocessed unmixed raw stems so we can load them up with our setup, which most likely, will be ProTools in some form or another. Maybe that's not what they'll use for the initial recording, but I almost guarantee somewhere in the process, be it mixing, masterring, editing, somewhere, there will be a point where PT probably would come into play. But, alas, I digress.
No, Waxhawlover, my comment about Reaper being sufficient for certain tasks was aimed at comment 13, not at your comment. However, it was interesting to read your comment to see how you use both pieces of software in your life.
It's all good. :)
I am trying to find and become well-versed [of course in due time] an industry-grade accessible solution for mixing and mastering. I do not have the rig nor the room space to record anyone thus folks will send me their raw material so I can produce a final product. I know someone who uses Logic Pro, and he mentioned he would like to send me the stems so I can import and go from there. He uses Pro Tools also, but I think his band is recording in a studio of another. He lost almost his entire rig this past August due to a flood, but that is a whole 'nother story. This is why, in combination with the fact Logic Pro is an Apple developed product [though not originally], I thought it would be usable and pleasantly so. I can afford Pro Tools, and if in time that is the way to go, I will most certainly travel that road. Unfortunately, I never had the opportunity to use it when he had the studio.
I have concluded my interpretation of Reaper being low-end was incorrect. That has been adjusted.
Yeah, Reaper is absolutely definitely not low-end by any means. As I said, I don't use it a huge amount, but I definitely do use it for some things.
yes you are wright.
kindly may you share link . so, I could learn Logic Pro x more.
As a happy user of Reaper on Windows, I am curious to know your thoughts on the strengths and weaknesses of Reaper and Protools on the Mac. You say you use both for certain tasks. I am a musician making use of a vast array of virtual instruments, a sound designer, voice actor and audio theatre producer, to give you an idea of what I use it for. I understand audio editing is generally considered more suited to the Mac, though I haven't found too much trouble on PC. I do have a little usable vision, enough to navigate visually with Zoom, though I would primarily be a voiceover and keyboard user on the Mac.
Having read all the messages and tried applying to accessible logic group. But, given it's working with moderator approval, I could never join. I requested to do so from 2 different addresses but never heard back. Contact moderator link also did not work. Anyone here can help me with this or point to other resources that are similar? Thanks! ?
I'm a PC user and switched from Cakewalk Sonar to Reaper in 2017 once my vision finally declined such that even cranking the magnification on ZoomText wouldn't allow me to use the computer visually. I was looking for a DAW I could take full (or near-full) advantage of exclusively using a screen reader. After adjusting to a very different workflow with Reaper, I can safely say it's highly accessible provided you install the plugins mentioned earlier in this thread.
That said, there are some areas Reaper leaves me wanting for. It's biggest weakness when compared to other packages like Sonar, StudioOne and GarageBand is the lack of quality software instruments out of the box. You get a painfully rudimentary sampler and a frankly unusable drum machine and synthesizer, but that's about it. One thing I always loved about Sonar was the wealth of pro quality instruments, sounds and VST plugins that come with it, but that's also why you pay more for such packages than the modest $60 for Reaper. With all this in mind, I've been toying with the idea of buying a Mac laptop and installing Logic. There are no other accessible PC DAW options outside of Reaper, from what I can tell. Old versions of Cakewalk were apparently accessible to JAWS users with the help of a third-party script but that's irrelevent to me since I was using a recent version of Sonar and am an NVDA user.
Anyway, long winded post aside, I guess I'm just saying I'll be following this thread with interest as more folks chime in on their experiences with Logic.