In this episode of the AppleVis Extra, David Nason speaks with Rocco Fiorentino, developer of FloType, an upcoming VoiceOver-first keyboard for blind and low-vision users. If you remember the speed and simplicity offered by Fleksy and later FlickType, FloType will feel immediately familiar. Rocco explains how his background as an audio engineer and producer gradually led him into development, first through scripting tools designed to make Pro Tools more efficient with VoiceOver, and eventually to building a keyboard intended to solve one of the persistent frustrations of touchscreen devices: typing quickly without needing to hit every virtual key precisely.
FloType takes a very different approach from Apple's conventional onscreen keyboard. Rather than requiring you to locate individual letters accurately, you tap approximately where you believe the letters would be on a QWERTY keyboard. FloType analyzes the pattern of those taps and predicts the word you intended. Swipe right to accept the suggestion, swipe up or down to move through alternatives, and continue typing without having to find a spacebar. In the episode, Rocco gives a hands-on demonstration showing just how quickly this can work, including entering words, correcting an incorrect prediction, adding punctuation and emoji, deleting text, and switching to manual character entry when a word isn't in FloType's dictionary.
There is considerably more going on than word prediction. FloType can be used system-wide through an iOS keyboard extension, while gestures provide access to editing commands that would otherwise require finding controls on the screen. Rocco discusses cursor navigation, manual entry, customizable sounds and haptics, key size and contrast options for low-vision users, and plans for a self-voicing experience. He also talks about an Apple Watch version currently being tested, where limitations in watchOS gesture handling present some interesting accessibility challenges. Multi-language support is another major goal, with English and Spanish planned as the initial languages when FloType reaches the App Store.
The conversation also offers an interesting look behind the scenes at accessible app development. Rocco is totally blind and discusses using Swift and Xcode, AI-assisted development, sighted feedback for visual design, and extensive input from blind and low-vision beta testers. He explains why supporting another language involves far more than translating an interface: FloType needs to understand the vocabulary, grammar, keyboard layout, and patterns of each language well enough for its prediction system to remain useful. The pair also discuss FloType's eventual business model, the realities of maintaining an accessibility-focused app as Apple changes VoiceOver and its operating systems, and Rocco's commitment to ensuring the project can continue even if he is someday unable to maintain it himself.
This episode should be particularly interesting to anyone who misses Fleksy or FlickType, finds conventional touchscreen typing cumbersome, doesn't use Braille Screen Input, or simply wants another fast way to enter text on an iPhone or iPad. It is also well worth hearing for blind developers and anyone curious about how a VoiceOver-first application moves from an idea to a working product. FloType remains in active beta at the time of writing rather than being a publicly released App Store app, but its combination of familiar gestures, pattern-based typing and accessibility-first design already makes it an intriguing project to watch.
Thinking About Giving It a Try?
If touchscreen typing has never felt quite as fast or comfortable as you would like, FloType is an especially interesting beta to explore. Its approach doesn't require perfect accuracy when tapping individual letters, and its gesture-driven interface is designed from the outset around blind and low-vision users rather than having accessibility added afterward.
FloType is currently available as a free public beta through TestFlight for iPhone and iPad. Rocco has said that he expects the eventual release to include paid options, but final App Store pricing has not yet been announced. An Apple Watch version is also under development. Because FloType has not yet received its public App Store release, there is currently no App Store listing to link to.
Learn More
Transcript
Disclaimer: This transcript was generated by AI Note Taker – VoicePen, an AI-powered transcription app. It is not edited or formatted, and it may not accurately capture the speakers’ names, voices, or content.
David: welcome once again to the AppleVis Extra podcast. My name is David Nason and I'm here with another episode in our summer series talking to blind and low vision developers, so developers from our own communities creating some really interesting apps. Today's episode is a chat with Rocco Fiorentino, who is the developer of an app that is currently in beta called FlowType. For people who remember the Flexi keyboard and the Flicktype keyboard, this app will be familiar. This is Rocco has taken up the the torch so to speak since those apps went away and built a new app along the same lines that really speeds up typing. I've been using it myself and love it. So was really happy that Rocco was happy to chat to me. so without further ado, here's my chat with Rocco. Hello Rocco and thanks so much for joining me on the podcast today. Hope you're well.
Rocco: Of course. Thank you so much for having me.
David: No, delighted to have you. You're in Nashville, is that right?
Rocco: Yes, I am in Nashville. in in good old Tennessee for the moment.
David: Baking baking hot. Recording in early August, I'm guessing Yes,
Rocco: it is very toasty up here.
David: I mean the the temperate climate of Ireland kinda yeah nice but yeah it's good to good to take a bit of time out and and have this chat. So thanks so much. of course things. You've come on kind of onto our radar through the flow type app, and we'll come back and talk about that a little bit. But I was curious, like even in terms of your background, like h how you've got how you even got into developing an app in the first place? Is this your first app? yeah, what's your kind of background in this area?
Rocco: Yeah, so I've always kind of been that techie kid,, I grew up in music and I still am very much in music. I'm an audio engineer and producer down here in Nashville. but part of that was also has also always been some kind of development. I've messed around with you know Apple script in in the early days and app development and and coding and and kind of getting computers or phones or whatever to do what I want it, so to create something that didn't exist already has been a lot of fun for me. And so when I went up to Berkeley College of Music up in Boston for a little bit, I met another blind professor there whose name is Chi Kim. And we used Pro Tools a lot, which is the kind of standard audio editor and and DAW in in the industry. And Pro Tools is great. I would say it's maybe about 90-95% accessible out of the box. But there are some things that that aren't quite convenient when using it on the Mac and with voiceover. And so Chi and I kind of put our heads together and said, what what can we do to kind of fix that and improve that? and we created something called flow tools. and And it basically was a bunch of JavaScript that went on top of Pro Tools to kind of enhance the workflow for screen reader users. and so that we started in oh twenty fifteen, I wanna say. and it it's still, an an ongoing project. but that was really my first kind of real play around in development and and coding. And fast forward whatever that is, ten years or so. And And I really kind of wanted to get more into it. And I started kind of looking into Swift and doing some some things and playing with you know some some of the agentic AI a little bit. , and I kind of went, I think I actually want to build more things. , and this whole keyboard idea was something that I think I was really sorely missing since Flexi and Flick Type had gone away. and I s I'm sure I wasn't the only one who was missing that and there there really hasn't ever been to me a touch screen typing experience that was like that or is like that since since both of the apps have have gone away. And so I thought, what happens if I try to re use that as inspiration and and kind of revive it. and and that's how FlowType started. And funny enough, I really didn't intend for FlowType to be the actual name of it. It had nothing to do with Flow Tools either. I just I I kind of thought, okay, flick type fli I was trying to play with a name and really I just used that to create a test flight instance right so that there was you know a name associated with it and I could you know send it to to five or six people and have them play with it. And then I kinda went, okay, I think this name is gonna stick you know now here we are.
David: I love that so you you actually did music in college as opposed to it wasn't like a co
Rocco: Yeah no I I never took like computer science or any of that stuff. I just kind of started started learning on my own and diving in and figuring out kind of the ins and outs of of what I needed to do as I as I did it, which kind of was so what I did with Apple Script too. I I just started looking at examples and and guides and reading and I I think that's kind of how I learn best is just by like doing and trying and failing and doing
David: again and reading more and you know Yeah, it's it's a good place to be for that.
Rocco: I do, yeah, I still I still do that professionally. That's that's kind of my main thing. This is sort of another sort of side branch that I've that I've started diving into.
David: It's a really cool hobby. Although if well it's gone beyond a hobby now but like to start out as as something like you say it's a a side project and to be able to to learn it. And I think it's one of the great things we have nowadays is that ability to self teach. You don't have to go to college to learn how to create an app, which is brilliant.
Rocco: Yeah. and and the the advancements in AI have been amazing in that too, because you know if there's something particular that I'm struggling with, I can go hey, how does this thing work? Or I'm using this as an example and what could be better about it, or what can I change to make this happen? Or you Yeah.
David: And it's are you fully Mac based then for your work?
Rocco: Yes, I'm I'm fully Mac and iOS based. I may at some point get an Android to kind of poke around and maybe develop with that as well because one of the first things I requests I got when I put this out in beta was when are you gonna make an Android version? And I was like eventually it's not out of the question, but at the moment I don't have an Android device, so I gotta do that first before I could start developing for a device I don't have.
David: Yeah. It's definitely one of the biggest barriers. I know there are obviously blind Android users, but one of the it's almost a chicken and egg situation because Exact.ly
Rocco: Yeah.
David: but yeah, you're right. We definitely needed an app like this. I was telling you before we before we started the official recording that you know I you would have used Flexi and FlickTok back in the day. I remember interviewing guys behind that app and you know it was fantastic at the time. And then w when it went away, I sort of said, Oh, you know what, I'm gonna try Apple's direct touch typing, which is the closest built-in experience that we have to that. And in some ways it works well. I got quite fast, but when you make a mistake, you have to go back and delete the word. there's none of this.
Rocco: Yeah.
David: That's one of the biggest things is that very easy just it reads the word and you just swipe over down to change the word and yeah, so I I think I'm among many who were really happy when Flowtype popped up.
Rocco: Well thank you. I I really appreciate that. it's at the time of this recording, it is currently in beta. but we'll see. I wanna kind of try and fix a few other bugs before it actually gets released, but I'm I'm aiming to to have it in the app store by at least by the end of the year of twenty twenty six, if not before then. and you know I I th the the amount of messages that I've gotten just of people excited about it and feedback from it and people that, said that, it changed their life because they're only able to use, one arm or one hand and, that it made typing you know exponentially easier for them. it's just been it's just been amazing.
David: It's also made it much, much less likely that I'm gonna throw my phone against a wall.
Rocco: Well I appreciate that too. That's a good thing.
David: which is great. For the uninitiated, do you want to give us a quick description of of what the actually is and and what it what it does.
Rocco: Sure. Yeah. So if if someone has never used those two apps that we mentioned before, FlickType or Flexi, essentially FlowType is is inspired by that that concept, which is that as a blind or low vision user, it's it's almost near impossible to type completely accurately, right? On the first try, if you type the word, hello without seeing the screen and the letters, you're very rarely going to tap exactly on H E L L O, right? and so that's that's kind of the point is that like because it's a touch screen, there's not really a great way for us to type with that at least almost as fast as our cited you know peers. and so flow type is kind of aimed to change that. So when you type you don't get feedback when you're typing the letters because the whole point of it is that it maps your finger positions of your tapping on the screen to where it thinks your layout of the Cordy keyboard is in your head. Right? So it tries to guess, if you tap in the middle of the screen for H and maybe the top left of the screen for E, you know semi bottom right of the screen for both L's and kind of top right for the O. it's probably ninety ninety-ivef percent of the time gonna guess that you want to write the word hello on your first try. and so you type the word you want, you swipe right to get to sort of enter it into the text field and get the suggestion of what it thinks the word is that you're trying to type. and if that suggestion is incorrect, you can swipe down or back up through a list of words that it thinks that you're trying to type and then you can just keep typing when you find the word that you want.
David: Yeah, so it's kind of it's pattern recognition as opposed to
Rocco: Essentially yes. It's it's it's very intense it's it's essentially a very a very intense predictive slash autocorrect pattern recognition Yeah and I think one of the strengths as well is if you
David: like for space you don't go find the space bar either it's all yeah it just
Rocco: spaces everything for you swiping right again after you type a word will give you punctuation. So you get a period and then you can go down through swipe down to get comma, question mark, all that stuff. And if you swipe up from those, you can customize emojis and there's there's all kinds of things that you can change in in its settings and how it behaves and things like that.
David: Yeah, absolutely. And kind of seamlessly lets you go into if you do want to type a word that's not in the dictionary, you can type it manually by the old school method. so to speak Yeah. By selecting around and lifting and you can add add the word that way. So I think you were set up there to give you had your phone set up if you want to give a I don't know a two minute demo. Yeah, sure. VoiceOver: Speech on.
Rocco: Okay. So I'm now in the main flow type app. there is also a keyboard extension so that you can use this system wide. So you don't have to just type in the app. You can type in any app in iOS. So I'm gonna make sure that I have no text. No text. Okay, cool. So I am gonna type hello since we've just talked about it. So and notice as much as I type, right, you didn't get any letters there. It didn't tell me what I'm actually tapping. It just has the sound and the haptic for me to let me know that it's registered that I've tapped something, but there's no feedback until I swipe right. Hello. There we go. And it it spells it out so it knows that I know that that's what I've typed. that's not really that helpful right now, but if I'm typing something like the word then there's T H A N T H E N right and voiceover kinda reads them the same so you can have it spell out different words that you just Yeah, that is optional. in fact I probably should have turned that off for this demo. That's funny. but I'm gonna keep typing. So I'm gonna write I'm I am and notice I didn't put an apostrophe there because Flowtype will offer that to me as a suggestion anyway. I'm gonna swipe right. And typing. Typing. Using. Using this this app. Now I'm gonna purposely type a little bit below the P. Swipe right. All. I got all. A L L. And I'm gonna swipe down now. App A P P Called Called Flow type Flow type period period and if I swipe right again and up smiling face. I get an emoji.
David: Yeah, it really is that simple, isn't it? You just tap and it's you just tap.
Rocco: And if I want to delete, I can swipe left.
VoiceOver: Smiling face.
Rocco: And now I've deleted the emoji. If I swipe left again.
VoiceOver: Period.
Rocco: I've deleted the peri period. if I swipe right again.
VoiceOver: Period.
Rocco: I'll go down to an exclamation point. Comma.
VoiceOver: Question mark. Exclamation mark.
Rocco: There we go.
David: And again, even things like yeah, delete is a swipe, next line is a swipe and hold. So again, you're not having to look for buttons ever, re rarely unless you want to do manual typing. You're not having to look for Yeah,
Rocco: and and you can do that. There is like a return character that you can you can get to by manual entry, right? If you hold your finger. So if I hold my finger, let me turn shift off. Shift off. If I hold my finger down, D, F, G. Now I get letters. Right, just like normal. So that I can enter something that isn't in flowtype's dictionary because if FlowType doesn't know what it is, you can't tap it out, right? Because it's not in its like known word bank. and if I go to the bottom here, delete return. I can delete or return. And of course if I let go on the return Empty line. It's gonna tell me that there's a new line there.
David: Yeah, that's that's kind of the how the app works. And yeah, really I have to say I think it's and it's still in beta and I think it's already very solid, so yeah, it's great. it's I think people are interested as well, like in terms of where where it came from, 'cause I believe flick type when it kinda went away, I think it was purchased by Pinterest if mine if memory serves and then it there was talk of it going oh them open sourcing the code. Did that did were you able to tap into that at all, or did you have to create a lot of it?
Rocco: Unfortunately not. I really wish that they had open sourced it because I probably would have done this, or at least someone would have done this much sooner if they had done that. but I think Flexi was purchased by Pinterest. and then I don't really know what happened to it or why, but it's it's gone now. I know it was around for quite a while and when they first purchased it, they pretty much completely broke accessibility to it, which is I think really why Flick Type ended up coming back out. , and then the developer of FlickType and Apple kind of had a a back and forth in twenty twenty one. and Flick Type essentially went away. It is still in the App Store,, but it it really doesn't work. It crashes. and the extension is gone and I'm not sure about the watch part of it, but I I don't think that that works the way that it's supposed to either as far as I'm aware. and I I kind of reached out to that developer a few times and said, hey, what's going on? I really miss this app and I really want it to come back, and I'd even be happy to like help you, do w whatever over the years and I just kinda got no answer and so I finally said, Well, you know what? I think I think it's time that I at least try to to do something about it. And so this was the result of that.
David: Yeah, absolutely. And it's very familiar, isn't it, to the to the previous ones.
Rocco: that was my goal, yeah. I never was trying to make a direct copy of anything or or try to, in step on anybody's toes. But I I really th there's only so many ways that you can play with a keyboard, right? And I I think that that idea of of having that pattern recognition is is one of the greatest ways that I've seen of typing for people who can't see a a flat surface. and so I I kind of used that as a as a jumping off point and then expanded upon it.
David: Yeah, really it makes so much sense. It really does then it's yeah it's just much more efficient so yeah hopefully people will will check it out and discover discover how useful it can be. What I'm curious actually in terms of the development kind of process obviously y you mentioned your self-taught, you're kinda using them the Mac. Is there any is it all in X code or what kind of tools do you use?
Rocco: Yeah, it's all in X code. or the command line for X code, because sometimes that's easier too. but yeah, it's it's all in Swift, it's all in Xcode. which is why the Android side is going to be quite a project because Android does not run Swift. So, whenever I whenever I decide to tackle that, it's going to take me a minute to port it over to I think Android is like J Pac or something. to put it over to whatever.
David: Is that a flutter?
Rocco: Is that a a language or it may be. I'm not sure. I'd have to look it up because I I really I haven't been in the Android world almost at all. so you you may be right and you may be onto something, but I I would need to look that up. but yeah, it's for now it's all it's all done in Swift.
David: Well we're Apple Viz, so that's our main good.
Rocco: Yeah, right there you go.
David: and you mentioned using LLMs are they helping you with writing the code, the AIs or is it more for your cut of the learning process or both?
Rocco: I think a little bit of both, yeah. you know I I think these these all this these AI tools and stuff are are amazing but they're also very new and and very prone to influence, I guess is the right word, right? you know I can say, this is the thing that I would like to do. Here is some of the code that I've written already. you know tell me, you know whatever, if you see any errors or you have a suggestion or you know I've I've gone halfway now I want to do something else and and go look at documentation and you finish th the rest of the half and you tell me when you're done and I'll look at, that kind of thing. But I think that a lot of people have started kind of letting AI sort of run itself and have agents supervise other agents and, do do all that stuff and it's okay, that's cool. You might make an app, but is it really what you want? And does it look right? And does it, you know? so I but I I AI has has been an incredible asset I think for for a lot of people, including myself. and I I'm excited to kind of see where it goes because it's it's it can only get better from here, right?
David: Yeah, absolutely. Hopefully anyway. I'd like there's probably me included, people listening who are kind of curious to get to learn a bit of code, even to get started, like ha is there anywhere you'd recommend people yet to in terms of resources or tutorials or anything like that?
Rocco: So honestly, I think obviously like Apple has guides and documentation and getting started things and they're not they're not bad but with where AI is now I honestly would say to start there ask it to ask it, you know build build something simple or or start with something simple. You don't even have to build anything, but you can just ask it about it and what the code would look like and what it would take. , but if you do want to actually kind of get something in your hands, it will it will build you something, like completely. Like you can run it on your phone, whatever it whatever it builds. And it could be something simple. It could be,, I don't know, make me an app with two tabs and you know numbers across the screen that when I press the number, it gives me a a nice, fun sound and a and a you know congratulations bubble or something, right? just just for you to understand how the code works, what you're doing, what happens,, all that kind of stuff. And then and then kind of do your thing. The sky's the limit, right? Like if you have an idea, go go chase it and build it and you know study things along the way. Let AI help you along the way if you're into that. and you'll be amazed at at how how far you can get and how quickly you can get there, I think in this day and age. It's it's pretty incredible.
David: Yeah, it's brilliant. I know one of the one of the other interviews I did for this series actually he released the other day was Quentin Williams from the the VAL lock app and hi I think his story is very much like that that he had an idea and just started Yeah trying basically bit by bit. Turned it into an actual Bible app.
Rocco: Yeah, I know a lot of people who have used that. And I and I know Quentin too, he's he's awesome.
David: Yeah, absolutely. And design wise then how did you how'd you find that side of it? I don't know how much visual design is involved in an app like So yeah,
Rocco: it's it's interesting, right? Because I am totally blind. So I can code colors and all that stuff, but I can't see them, right? I don't know if they look good or not. so my my mom was very helpful in screen sharing and going,, well now you made white on white and I can't see anything, that kind of thing. and so and AI did help with that as well because it can take screenshots and look at things and say, oh, that's because you have this here and this here and let me fix the the color scheme and blah. and so that you know that part has been very, very helpful. I I did also need you know cited assistance to same thing, look at the the actual like keyboard rows, right? Where has as they appear on the screen. and I've had that from testers too, some some low vision users have said, oh, this is too far apart, or these things aren't symmetrical or or whatever the case may be. And I just kind of, write it down and go, okay, how do I fix it now? so yeah, I I definitely need, some some visual aids along the way, but that's okay. I I'd rather do that than make an app that looks horrible and and go, well here, you know Yeah.
David: As I say accessi I say it works sometimes. Accessibility works both ways, you know?
Rocco: Exactly.
David: I have to make PowerPoints and Excel sheets that you can read as well as you have to make ones that I can read.
Rocco: So Yeah. Yeah.
David: yes, for government and it is built for low vision as well, this app, I think, fair in fairness, because you you've got different contrast options and things like that as well.
Rocco: Yes, you can change the size of the keys, you can change the change the contrast of them. by the time this is released, this will also have like a self-voicing option so that you don't have to use voiceover if you don't want to. Yeah, so it's it's it's it's definitely meant for both blind and and low vision.
David: So what's what's next, I suppose? I mean you mentioned watch earlier. Will that be on your roadmap?
Rocco: Yeah, so the the watch is currently in beta. Apple I I'm not quite sure what Apple has done with direct touch on the watch. it seems to be like half there in that like if I enable direct touch within the app, voiceover still tells you to enable it in the rotor when you're on the watch, except that there is no rotor item for it anymore. It just kind of works on its own. I can't really figure out quite the right trigger for it. Sometimes it works just fine. Sometimes you have to turn off voiceover and turn it back on and then voiceover sees it and it's okay. So it's a little odd. but it does it does work. you can, swipe left and right and type on the watch screen. it's really not meant for like writing a novel. on on the phone and the iPad app there are ways to edit within FlowType. There's a rotor that you can that you can use directly inside the keyboard and two finger swipes left and right are essentially your rotor like picker. So if you set your rotor to characters or words, you can you can move the cursor around by that unit or setting using two finger left and right because up and downs are are you know going through suggestions or punctuation or whatever you're doing when you're typing. But I unfortunately, again, Apple restricts watch gestures to one finger, at least for the developer. So like I can only ever see one finger at a time from when you if you're using the watch. I'm not exactly sure why that is, but that means that a bunch of other gestures that I've set up for other devices won't work in that context, unfortunately, at least for the time being. and so it's just kind of another option. I don't think it was ever meant to replace the phone app or anything like that. But it it's an option, if you if you find that you don't want to dictate and you have the watch on and you don't want to use the stock Apple keyboard in there. it it's just another option. multi-language support is another thing that I've gotten a ton of requests for and that is coming. my goal is to release when it actually hits the app store to release flow type with English and Spanish as kind of native languages and then obviously other ones coming. what's involved
David: in that? I'm curious because obviously you know the it it requires this pattern recognition so it needs to know the dictionary that you're using. you know where do how do you Yeah,
Rocco: it it's it's interesting that you ask that because it's actually a lot more complicated than I think people think. Like it's it's the actual translation is almost the easy part. which I don't spe my my native and only language is English, so any translations and all of that will will either be AI or someone graciously volunteering their time to help me translate things. so I I will very much need you know beta testers and things of of different languages if I'm gonna do this. But yeah, it's not just the translation. Because of how FlowType works, it needs essentially almost a language model for each language. And when I say language model, I don't necessarily mean AI. I mean that it needs an understanding of how the actual language works, how the grammar works, how different words fit together and contexts of them and different layouts of the keyboard and all that kind of stuff,, in order to make it, an a real experience for someone who is, flu fluently speaks that language. I'm not trying to sort of half adapt to each language and kind of go, well, the main thing is English. My my goal is to like fully you know embrace each language and whatever it's you know unique unique things are to that language and allow flow type to use those you know as much as it can yeah,
David: can imagine. I And even with other languages you've things like I don't know about all languages, but I know French, for example, have the A Certy keyboard rather than the Quirty keyboard and you could you could be getting into a whole rabbit hole of different differentah, things.
Rocco: Ye yeah. I mean it's's absolutely a huge project to take on,, and not something I take lightly. And I think that is something important to note. Like there will not be like you know ten different languages supported in a month. eventually we'll get there. and I would I would really love to do that. But if I do that, I think all I'm gonna do is end up breaking something or making a mistake, and you're gonna have you know users trying to type in German and French and and Italian and be very frustrated by the process. and that's that's not what I want. I want you to enjoy it and love it and and be able to use it and and let it be an asset to you and a and a helpful tool, not something that you go, oh man, this sucks, you know.
David: Yeah, no, it makes sense and hopefully people people I'm sure will be willing to to help and beta test, I would hope you see it with with apps. And you've had you've had really good response to the beta.
Rocco: I've had an amazing response so far. I'm I'm I'm extremely humbled and and honored that this many people have been willing to speak openly about it and give me feedback and test it and play with it and the enthusiasm from the community has been incredible and and much much appreciated because there are absolutely days when I I just want to like throw something out a window and go like but that that's that's what makes this worth it.
David: Yeah and it's times you put a card like that look I know there's this problem. I need I need more information about this problem, you Yeah, and sometimes that happens.
Rocco: sometimes people go Oh man, like accuracy is really bad and I go Okay, well, let's figure out why. Send me a diagnostic. Send me, what were you doing while you were typing? Do you do you type that word a lot? Does it give you a problem a lot? that all that kind of stuff. and, we we figure it out.
David: and if if people listening to this haven't been using the app up to now, is the beta still open to join?
Rocco: Yeah, absolutely. Um flowtype.app is the sort of landing page for this flo t y p e dot ap and flow type.app slash beta will take you directly to the test flight page.
David: Great stuff. And you're hoping you said earlier to get it out by the end of the year. Do you have do you have thoughts on how you're going to you know monetize that or if you're going to where yeah
Rocco: what yeah so I I definitely think that you know th this stuff takes a lot of work probably more than most people realize and I'm not saying that to try to come off as as rude or condescending, but it really does take an em immense amount of work. and I I really didn't realize how much it would take until I kind of got into this whole keyboard thing and went, oh wow. so, it it really does. It takes a lot of work and Apple keeps changing things constantly and changing VoiceOver behavior and breaking things and fixing things and breaking other things and it it's just a constant sort of ever changing landscape especially for something like a keyboard that interacts with with voiceover and it's reading and all that stuff. And so with the language support and all the other features that I've planned and that people have requested, this this is going to very much be a a continual process. The beta will be continual. the app store releases will be continual. and so, I I need to I need to be compensated in some way for for all of that, right? So it's it's hard because I don't really like subscriptions. it's never been my thing. I know that I think a lot in of of people in the blind community, also really hate subscriptions, but also like you know there there's there's only so many ways that that you can do this. So I think what I will likely do is make a monthly and a yearly subscription if that's what you want to do, and also like a one-time payment and maybe sort of like a like a donation slash tip jar type thing if people feel called to support me in that way. but this this is not going anywhere. I'm not planning to abandon this anytime soon. and funny enough, when I posted this on Apple Vis, I think one of the first two or three comments I got was, oh, you should make this open source and I said well yes I don't want to do that just yet. But if for whatever reason there comes a time when I can't develop this anymore, or whatever the case may be, I will absolutely make this open source because I don't want this to die.
David: Yeah, so much work has gone in,
Rocco: so Yeah, absolutely.
David: and yeah, look, I'm a big believer in in people deserve to be to be paid for for the work they do and that I need if this is an app I'm using literally every day of the week that yeah, it's it deserves to to be paid for. and it's funny year this is the fourth of these interviews I've done this summer and recorded so far, and all four of you have said essentially the same thing is that like I don't love subscriptions. I know people don't love subscriptions, but like at the same time you have to you you're living in the real world and like this is
Rocco: it's it's really hard because you know I don't I don't want the community to think that I'm trying to you know gip anybody or anything like that, but also this is a lot of work and I will say that very likely what I will do is keep the actual like container app always free so that you can type in there and use that and then if you want to use the extension and probably some other different features that that will be a sort of a a paid tier of some sort.
David: Yeah, that makes sense. It's always an option to go that and I'm always a a promoter of those tip jar type solutions as well as as additional or for people who can, who can and Yeah, exactly.
Rocco: Yeah, exactly. And I understand not everyone can and that's okay.
David: Yeah, so no, I think it's a it's a brilliant app. I think there's a there's a lot of people who have been not only happy, relieved. So just happy that when the when the app came up, when the post came up at AppleViz, a lot of people jumped straight on it and yeah, I think it's brilliant. You're doing really good work. It's really really fast turnaround as well.
Rocco: So I try. Thank you. I really appreciate that. That means a lot to me.
David: Yeah, definitely encourage people if you if you type or would like to type a lot on your phone. come play
Rocco: with it. Especially if you use BSI. BSI is awesome. I I have nothing against BSI. but come play with it. You may you may be pleasantly surprised.
David: Yeah, absolutely. I'd agree. I'm not a BSI person, plus Yeah yeah this is And some people can't use BSI because they don't know
Rocco: Braille and that's okay too.
David: Yeah, exactly. But like you you really when're typing a flat top, you really feel like you're typing like anyone else. You know what I mean? It's tap top tap and go yeah,
Rocco: that's the goal. That's the goal is to kind of level the playing field for everybody.
David: Yeah. So thanks again for for creating us and continuing to create it and thanks for joining me on the on the podcast.
Rocco: Of course. Thank you so much for having me. Have a great day.
David: You too, and thanks everyone for listening.