Regarding External Keyboard Use with iPhone in iOS 16

Hi David and welcome to our community.

This should be an interesting thread, as there are ways in which an external keyboard can offer added value to blind and low vision iPhone users.

However, before this thread goes too far, we need to remind you and others of our posting guidelines relating to discussion of pre-release Apple software. Specifically, these prohibit the following types of post:

• Discussion of bugs introduced or fixed in a beta release.
• Anything which could be considered as technical support with beta software. For example, seeking help with installing/using beta software or problems with native or third-party apps after installing a beta.

The complete guidelines can be found at: Can I post information or ask questions about beta or preview versions of Apple software?

We ask that people respect these guidelines if posting to this thread.

The AppleVis Editorial Team

Thank you for this post. I would encourage you to submit any feedback you think could improve things. I would also encourage Applevis to have a beta section to discuss the Beta's.

Agreed, regarding beta section, however, is there some NDA tied up with the beta?

I'm pretty sure there are many mainstream sites where non-accessibility users chat about changes. In fact, I know Mac news outlets talk about them. I understand that talking about the beta is is really just for those of us who are deep delvers, but I'm not sure that inhibiting this conversation between users of public betas, at least, is beneficial for the community or, indeed, in reporting issues.

I do realise that the public beta is not yet available and this has a different NDA, if at all, to the developer beta, but I do think we should, and should be allowed, to talk about the changes, what works, what doesn't work and what we like and dislike,, as other forums allow, though with blind and partially sighted accessibility at the forefront.

Macrumors and other sites are talking about it. It is time for Applevis to get on board. A clear disclaimer that you install and run betas and do any work arounds at your own risk is enough. There needs to be a beta section of Applevis.

just because other sites and Youtube videos are talking about betas of Apple platforms, doesn't nessessarly mean AppleVis should. remember, Apple has an NDA, that now, is respected by AppleVis. If you want open beta discussion, Android has lots of that, Apple has an NDA for a reason. the limited exception to discuss new voices in iOS Sixteen, because of the edition of Eloquence, is in itself a violation of this NDA, if I am not mistaken. the AppleVis editorial team probably have their reasons beyond excitement of Eloquence to allow two threads on new voices and not end them. remember when we had to wait for podcasts and blog posts about new iOS versions to be released? remember, Apple gave AppleVis an exception so the podcasts and blog posts can be published to the site when the release candidate is released? ? for Apple to do this is amazing. now, to the people who want a datacated beta section, be happy Apple regards AppleVis so highly. don't be greedy , , Apple can take it all away!.

I completely disagree. this site should put the users first and not apple. We are paying users of these devices and, the fact that we have to use the assistive technology that apple provides so that we are paying customers, should not exclude us from talking about betas and, specifically the changes and hopefully improvements of the OS. Sighted people can do it in forums that cater for mainstream users, it can't be any different here just because we use a specific aspect of the operating system.

This isn't greedy, it's equality. I, and many other contributors to this site, add useful information, assist fellow apple users. We're already a small user base who's voice is often drowned out by mainstream users. We need as much of an advantage as possible to help apple evolve the accessibility systems rather than them becoming swept aside and, for that, we need to be able to talk about betas, if we wish.

I see no advantage to apple vis being subservient to apple's intentions as, I believe it is not. We challenge apple on many aspects of the work they do or, in many cases, do not do. Muting an aspect of that conversation, just because we are blind and use certain systems that mainstream people don't, is exclusionary.

Apple VIS needs to hold apple accountable, a platform that we can use to petition apple for change. Without that power, we lose. Rattle cages, annoy people, use platforms to shame big business into saving face and correcting misdeeds and oversights.

This is a splendid resource, I agree, but it's actually created by us, not, aside from their few excellent posts and guides, those who maintain it.

You call such ideas 'greedy'. On the contrary, we help each other, provide solutions and are willing to put time into bug reports, discussion of new ways of working and make suggestions to apple who, I repeat, we are paying...
We're not greedy, we're down right charitable.

though your points are well founded, Apple makes their systems, and there is a beta list on groups.io when any discussion of betas is paramount. AppleVis is created by the editorial team, and we all enhance its use by contributing on the site. Apple reads forum posts on the site, that's why we have things now, if people beta test, that most of us wanted for years. Zolotech and Brandon Butch, YouTubers who make videos on the new platforms by Apple, reference VoiceOver. so it's becoming mainstream news. so I'm sure Apple knows about violators, like beta profiles.com for one, and various YouTubers who make videos on the latest versions of software this time of year. by all rights, they're developer memberships should be revoked. AppleVis is doing right by Apple, and if we disrespect Apple by violating the NDA, which applies to public betas, developer betas have a secret one, and Safari seed program participants. we're fortunate that Apple cares about accessibility at all. they provide tools for us, on parallel of no-one else. respect Apple, 'cause if not, they might take it all away.

Why are people so upset over not talking about betas on the main forum? Most mainstream communities relating to tech already have this rule in place.

Reddit as one quick example.

Beta people should have a place to talk considering they willingly put a nonstandard version of IOS on their devices. Why do you say that Applevis has an exception when they release blog posts and podcasts? Besides the voices in IOS sixteen, most podcasts are done when the full release candidate is out. apple knows people are using mainstream forums and videos to talk about their software. they aren't stupid. but how do you stop everyone from not disclosing things you don't want as a multibillion dollar company? they have little time for that. Do you have a problem with jailbreaking? Because in your own concept, the people who jailbreak are also disrespecting and violating apple internal components. Now I don't jailbreak, I just have no need but I'm not coming down on those who choose that way of life. For now, if betas aren't allowed to be discussed, I don't where not permitted. If I do install the Mac beta, I am running it, I will use other appropriate places to ask questions and solve issues. Do you remember when it was IOS8 I think, that voice over was completely broken in the first one or two beta cycles? How else was anyone to be notified, beta or not, if there wasn't a space to tell people to wait until the third cycle? This is the internet, people will do what they want, I really don't think large companies don't have some idea of their things being leaked. Now morally if that's an issue, the answer is simple. Don't install the beta and wait another two months and install the release candidate.

Just floating the idea but, would a private discord group of public beta testers step on any toes and, more importantly, would it be useful.

I'll accept that public forums are an issue and are specifically sited in apple's terms, but I think a private forum would be permitted. Whether this hobbles the point of discussion, EG, allowing apple to see our experiences and those who are looking at getting the beta, I don't know.