many thanks to the applevis community for helping create better voice over implementation, and leading the way to build a better app for folks (sighted, visually impaired, and blind) who want to make new friends, or seek casual dating and long term relationship opportunities.
Vorail is a voice-only messaging community to ask, answer, and make new friends. The Vorail community includes folks who are married, single, and divorced. Some are looking to make new friends, while others seek casual dating or a serious relationship.
please join our beta testing community, your voice matters.
"you fall in love with the voice first, there’s so much richness and intonation within a voice that gives clues to a person’s personality" (Kevin Satizabal, Royal London Society for the Blind)
Happy to Help!
I would be happy to test your iOS application.
I have been using iOS and Mac since 2009/10, and I would consider myself relatively skilled in terms of using VoiceOver.
I think there was a similar app out a while back but it's certainly something that I think could be good. Especially from a female perspective, I'm assuming this is a market group you are considering. And yeah, voice is really important for VI daters too. Will be happy to test.
Would like to help check the app to. Using iPhone 6 iOS 9.1. I am good with voiceover. How do we help?
Interested in testing
I am interested in beta testing this app. Looking forward to hear from you as to what I would need to do.
would like to beta test
would love to beta test the app.
I went to check the web page vorail.com and it seem unaccessible with jaws 15. Using W7 Also need to make his web page accessible.
response to forem post on app
hello tom I'd be eager to help as well. I contacted you privately with my email. I am a decent VO user myself and blind from birth:) have a good one.
Let's do this
I will be happy to test the app.
Sure, why not? I'll be willing to beta test this app. I've also been using iOS since 2009, so I have a lot of experience with VoiceOver.
Happy to help
Cool idea, I am happy to help. I am a seasoned VO user and have used other dating apps in the past as well.
Good luck :)
thank you. for folks able to use apple's 'test flight' beta testing app, we will email invitations to testFlight testing for Vorail. for folks that do not install apple's 'test flight' app, it will take some weeks before the version of app with updates for non-sighted is live (app store review process is taking longer, could be due to the upcoming holidays). i will reply to each person posting, and thanks again for helping build a better app.
Testing Your App
I would love to have the chance to beta test your app. I do use the test flight app since I am currently beta testing other apps. I look forward to hearing from you.
Down for the test.
testing this app sounds like a dope idea. I'm in. I'm downloading the test flight app as we speak. just let me know what i need to do.
where do I go to sign up?
Hi, so where do I go to sign up? I amfamiliar with testing apps, and I use the testflight system no problem, just need to know where to go to sign up, send in my UDID etc.
would be happy to help
Hi. Would be happy to help out with this app. Cheers
I currently have TestFlight installed on my device as well. Just thought I'd mention that just to make sure.
response to prev entry
I have testflight on ipod as well:)
Hope some of the ladies who belong to this list also participate. So far I think is just guies.
This sounds cool. Would love to test this app. You can contact me through the contact form.
added to the list
@Holger Fiallo, thank you for the reminder, the web page needs to be made accessible too. all of our energies are on making the app work seamlessly for the non-sighted and visually impaired. next week, planning to invite everbody to apple's test flight beta program to provide access to vorail before the most recent version goes live on the app store, generate more feedback to fix and improve earlier in the coding process. after incorporating feedback for app, then we'll take what we learned to make the web page accessible too :)
emailing invites to apple's test flight beta testing program
next week i plan to email invites to apple's test flight beta testing program for vorail. if you have not already emailed me, please email 'beta testing' to me at firstname.lastname@example.org and i can paste your email address into apple's itunes connect form for external tester invitations. apple goes through this process before granting access to apps prior to their release on app store. thank you. tom
I got my email invite to test Vorail a short time ago.
Everything is ok so far, it just need some members to join in.
You have my email. Just say what I need to do. Who knows maybe my woman is waiting there.
I got my invite today,
I got my invite today, however one thing I am not happy about is the app tries to force me to use iCloud to save data, and it doesn't even tell you what data it wants to save. I don't trust it and don't want to use it for anything. I have written to the developers and explained this, if they don't plan to add an option to make iCloud optional then I will withdraw from testing.
Although I am interested to help with testing this app I suspect many sighted users will probably prefer to stick with alternatives like tinder, and from a blind users point of view I suspect most users will probably be from the US, though I would be very happy to be proved wrong on both counts. I don't like any app that tries to force users to use particular services such as iCloud, twitter facebook as some apps try to make people use those sorts of services and usually any that go down that root get deleted from my phone.
iCloud / reply to @alex wallis
1) Vorail can be updated to work without connecting to iCloud
2) apple requires Vorail to be able to uniquely identify users and ban users who are abusive, and this is why Vorail uses iClound (CloudKit) -> the one & only piece of information provided to app developer (us) by iCloud/CloudKit is a unique id
3) i have received email from Alex and several other folks (thank you), and i will reply before the close of today, but first the app has a bigger bug to fix. during internal testing, the app worked well, but during external testing, the app has been crashing. we fixed issues discovered during the start of external testing (today) and are about to submit a new version to apple for release to external testers.
after replying to beta testers email, i will post a new comment here with the details, benefits and disadvantages around iCloud/CloudKit. based on beta testing experience, there will be a list of fixes, changes, new features. my view is after seeing the beta tester feedback, we the beta testers can choose if we want to move away from iCloud/CloudKit, and if so, should it be a high, medium, or low level issue.
thank you Alex and thank you beta testers! this process takes time, but i believe with patience we can build something special.
I emailed the below to Tom,
I emailed the below to Tom, just posting it so others can see it as well.
Hi, thanks for your reply I look forward to getting a detailed response from you at the end of the day.
My main issue with iCloud is that I am signed into it but I don't want to have to enable device backup or anything like that through iCloud, I assumed that I would have to enable something like that in iCloud.
I do use it for find my iPhone
but I don't want to have to use it for device backup or anything else if it can be avoided, the app wasn't very specific about what settings needed to be enabled.
However I do accept the need to ban abusive users in fact it would be very silly if there wasn't a way to do so.
I will also post this to applevis just so everyone can see my view.
beta test feedback / iCloud
if or when app request user to log into iCloud, i believe app should be more specific by stating that only one piece of information is sent to developers from iCloud, a unique id that can be used if a user says something abusive and needs to be banned from the service. will post this on public gdoc document for beta testin feedback (url coming later tonight in separate post). thank you @Alex Wallis for raising this issue. following is an email from vorail's lead tech person on issue raised by Alex, it explains the issue and thinking behind it in greater detail.
This is the lead tech guy of Vorail. My name is Linan Wang.
First thing first, it's the right email address to discuss anything
about Vorail App, please feel free to share any problems, concerns you
Secondly, about privacy. I'm very happy that Vorail users care deep
about their privacy. I think it's one of the core advantages of
Vorail. I'm a big fan of Edward Snowden and have even written a Chrome
browser plugin to keep me updated with his news.
The #1 thing of all my projects is to require absolutely minimal from
users about their personal info.
So, in Vorail, what's the absolute minimal? As you may know, Vorail is
a voice based dating app allow users to communicate directly with
their own voice. What if someone says abusive things? We need to be able
to take that particular account down. Therefore, we need to be able to
uniquely identify each user. That's all we need. There are lots of
options to archive the goal, but Apple's iCloud (technically, we use
CloutKit) is simply the best choice I can see, for couple of reasons:
1, it's widely available to most of the iOS users. therefore users
won't have to go through the registration process again.
2, It gives out to App developers (us) only one piece of information
about you, the user: a unique ID. No name, no email, no social
connections, absolutely nothing else. If App developers want more
information from your iCloud account, developers have to explicitly
ask for your permission, which Vorail doesn't. Further more, the
unique ID can not be cross referenced, which means, the unique ID of a
user we get through Vorail App, won't be the same from other Apps. We
have no ways to "reuse", or sell this piece of information.
The view we take about online dating, is that people really want to
interact with other people, directly. Personally, I hate "profiles" on
other dating sites. they are artificial, mostly fake, and block direct
communication. You can learn so much about a person through 1 minute
of voice chat than 1000 words of "profile" page. So our approach is to
encourage people to use voice as much as possible. This approach
renders other info secondary, even unnecessary.
Summary: iCloud/CloudKit gives us only a unique ID (which would be
different cross Apps). The sole purpose for us to have it is to take
care of abusive users. The dating model in Vorail, namely voice
communication, doesn't require other information from you.
I hope above clarifies your concern. Thank you.
you received email invite to test flight beta testing for vorail, correct? looking foward to your feedback in terms of app tech (ability to use with voice over), and app design (confusing or makes sense). thank you.
I'll help you test your app. Just tell me where to go and what you're looking for.
reply to @Apple Khmer / joining beta program
if you send me your email address (email@example.com), i will enter it on apple's developer page for vorail, and apple will email you an invite to test flight beta testing for vorail. apple requires the invite be sent by apple. thank you.
8 dec 2015 vorail beta testing current status
created a google doc for feedback, ideas on next steps, that we can all add comments to (and pasted today's version below) . three ways to post feedback: Pixtas@gmail.com, this Applevis forum, the google document at following url:
8 dec 2015 vorail beta testing current status.
.. 30 beta testers
.. 24 installations
.. Olz has just woken up (joke. that happens to be what the first person in my search results says)
app design ideas (please comment):
.. during beta testing, should we change three minute calls to thirty second calls (that can be extended to eight minutes if both sides tap ‘extend’ button)? at this early stage of testing, i suggest we (a) search for any gender, any age, any location and (b) tap like on multiple people. then the app will auto connect us with people we liked, and start a thirty second real time call when we and the folks we like are both online. reminder: when it is not convenient to receive a call, close app (double tap home button, then slide up is one way to close an app). after this round of beta testing, we can clear, reset everybody's likes.
.. should there be a voice like button? sometimes we hear a voice, maybe we are not interested in dating that person (liking and doing three minute real time voice chat), but we would like to leave a comment, give encouragement, or ask a question. adding a like button would make the user interface more complex, and take some coding time, and perhaps change the nature, usage of the app. lets only add it if enough of the beta testers feel it is good idea.
.. “there should be a way to update our profile information” (Earle). the thinking behind not including button to edit profile information is to encourage more honest information. if we can edit the data, could be less likely to enter in the data truthly first time. i do this on other sites, until i am comfortable with their service. current setup is email us to change your profile information, perhaps will make it more likely that we provide truthful data.
.. how does everybody feel about push notifications? in general, our team is not a fan of them. but i would like a way to contact users that may be struggling with the app. for example, the following beta testers have not been able to record their voice: Tiffany, Leena, Ocean girl, Lupita, Cat. Cat has emailed me about recording issue, but the app does not have email address, for privacy. if folks are ok with push notifications, we could send a unique message to a unique user, with only knowing that user’s chosen name.
open issues from feedback (please comment):
.. app should be more specific by stating that only one piece of information is sent to developers from iCloud, a unique id that can be used if a user says something abusive and needs to be banned from the service.
current bug list (please add comments if you also experience the following):
.. recording voice: “I was able to record my voice but it is stuck on saving your voice and in progress.” (Cat)
.. recording voice: “everything was going well until I had to record a voice. VoiceOver said to hold and press then release to listen, in my case because of VoiceOver I double tapped and held, finished recording and released. Nothing was recorded. I also turned VoiceOver off to see if it would record something then and still it did not.
I did not record anything and continued. I tried double-tapping the search button to see what was on there and it did not do anything. Double tapped and held and nothing. I repeated the same process for the other buttons, liked and connected, and nothing happened.
I don't know if the app has a bug in general or if this is just because of VoiceOver.” (Guadalupe)
.. picker for age: “not all the ages in the picker were visible to VoiceOver. For example I heard "18 years old", "24 years old". What I did to see all the years numbered correctly was to double tap and hold the picker, then drag my finger slowly up and down the screen until I heard the right number, in my case 19, then carefully released. Is there a way to redesign the picker so that all ages can be accessed by flicking up and down the picker without double tapping and holding?” (Guadalupe)
.. search results: When going through search results, the "next" button frequently disappears. (Randy)
.. overall performance: There is a significant delay between when a button is activated with VoiceOver and when the actions actually occur. (Randy)
.. people without voices were showing in search results. now only folks with voice show in results.
.. object to pick age did not work well with voiceover, changed to a different way to choose age
help with the "Done" button
This is Linan Wang, the tech guy from Vorail. Could you help me with the accessibility issue regarding the "done" button.
There should be a gesture or convention, under VoiceOver to access the right button in the navigation bar directly, but I couldn't find any info about it. Do you guys prefer to have an equivalent button at the bottom of a screen?
No. Did not.
For those testing Vorail, note that it does ask for your gender. I didn't see that when I set up my profile. I was told that option was on another page. There was no indication that another page was present. So I had to email them to add my gender. This is why I think there should be a way to modify the profile. Every other site and app has a way to make modifications. People make mistakes so there should be a way to make changes. This is just my opinion.
The Done Button
In most apps one can flick around the screen to get to the different app controls. I have noticed in Vorail you have to touch the done button or the back button. I personally have no problem with this, but new VoiceOver users tend to like to flick. So the way this is currently set up may not be intuitive to some people.
reply: the Done button
Thank you, Earle, for your reply.
I'll try to put the "Done" button to the last element at each screen. Does this solution sound good to you?
Is there any convention or shortcut to jump right to it? I couldn't find any from my research.
Ok, I'll e-mail you right now.
An Issue With Toggling A Switch Button
When I click on the switch button to view all instead of just view new, nothing happens. Voice Over still says the switch is still on show only new faces.
Automatically Calls People
Is the app supposed to automatically call people aftr you open the app? That is what the app is doing after I open it. I don't want to call anyone, but it is not giving me any other options. It will start at the home screen after I open it. It will stay on the hmoe screen for a few seconds befoer it starts to call people.
reply to @Apple Khmer
your question is a key design issue, and we need to hear from all beta testers, this effects all of us. the challenge is to keep user interface as simple as possible, kill all but the most necessary buttons. current version, when you like somebody, and that person likes you, and both of you have app open at same time, vorail will auto start thirty second chat between the two of you. the plus is fewer buttons, easier user interface. the minus, is just as you pointed out. what if i want to use vorail (eg. search today's "what happened today" voices), but i do not want to receive/make a call? we could add something like 'Silent' or 'Offline' mode to allow you and me to use vorail without receiving/making calls, but that will make user interface more busy, and steve jobs had saying, something like "each tap is a tap closer to disaster". he put only one button on the face of iphone, and it took a lot of design to achieve this what does everybody think?
requested apple resend the invite (to the most recent build 9 dec). did you receive the invite this time? if not, please email me at firstname.lastname@example.org and i can confirm i have your correct address. i would post your email here to confirm, but you may want to keep your email private.
All in all very simple interface.
However, there is one or two problems.
To start with the autoplay voices switch doesn't seem to work properly for me.
The other thing is I have been unable so far to test liking people etc as there are not many people online.
Looks good though.
Shout out to kingdekka
Oh ok, I get it. That makes sense now. I can understand the simple interface; however, others may not want to always get automatic calls, but until there is a way to give folks the option without compromising the simple interface too much, this will have to do.
I'm not much of a beta tester, but I will definitely check this app out when it's ready for use. In the meantime, what is an easy to use dating app that works well with voice over? If I have to post pictures that's no problem. Thank you.
I've tried the app.
I've tried the app, and I have to say hat I like it so far, I don't have the beta that everyone else has, I believe I sent my email address. Shoutout to brian Mcglashan.
Got it and install it. It was easy to setup but there is no way to hear my own voice to see if I like how I sound. Also the only female voice was your helper Sheila. Hope more people use it.
reply @bryan mcglashan
hi Bryan, thank you for the feedback :)
"autoplay voices switch doesn't seem to work"
.. the autoplay switch as i recall was on the search results page. it was removed in most recent build 151210. it was not working properly, and we have a new idea how to bring it back in a future version, in a way that provides more feel of community. we are working on a new user interface to play (new) voices continuously.
"unable so far to test liking people etc as there are not many people online"
.. there are about thirty beta testers, almost all are male. dating sites tend to have more men than women, but we believe vorail approach will be attractive to women. marketing will be an uphill climb, but before we reach for larger numbers, need to iron out app tech and logic.
we encourage everybody to search all (both gender, any location, any age), like lots of folks, and do the thirty second calls. after beta testing, can remove all the likes. need to test the real time voice chat. we may need to add 'Silent mode'. current version of app, when the people you liked, that also liked you, are both online, your device will ring and connect.
reply to @Apple Khmer
"others may not want to always get automatic calls"
.. me too. sometimes i want to use vorail, listen to voices of new users, like interesting voices, but not receive and auto connect to incoming calls. after more folks like everyone, try some thirty second calls, then we can hear feedback based on usage and make better logic for this part of app. maybe auto ring / connect, but user has chance to cancel. if i do not touch anything, device rings and connects to people i liked that also liked me. but when the device rings, i can tap on screen to silence (not pickup).
reply to @kingdekka
"I don't have the beta that everyone else has"
.. we have been publishing one new build per day, but apple seems to only notify some of the beta testers. the current build is 151210. starting tomorrow, with build 151211, will show build number on home screen. please notify me if you do not receive email tomorrow to download most recent build.
hi Lisa, have you received email invite from apple for test flight vorail beta testing?
i like to think vorail is (or will be) the dating app most easy to work wtih voice over :) i do not have experience with voice over on other dating apps, but perhaps others in this thread can contribute their suggestions.