iOS 7 Bugs: Will They Ever be Fixed

Initially when iOS 7 came out with a number of bugs, I optimistically thought it wouldn't be a problem as they would soon fix them in an update. Now I've changed my mind. Not because they haven't yet fixed the problems – it's far too soon for that, even though they have already released two updates. I'm less optimistic now because I remembered there's still bugs from iOS 6 which haven't been fixed, so what evidence do we have that Apple will fix these bugs?

I also can't help thinking that fixing these bugs was really something that should've happened during the beta testing phase. I know there were VoiceOver users beta testing iOS 7, and I'm pretty sure they would have sent bug reports to the relevant people. So I can only conclude that the issues are too complicated or that Apple isn't dedicated enough resources to fixing accessibility bugs. I hope I'm proven wrong.

Apple seems great at bringing out new features which respond to accessibility issues which have been reported or even some we never knew we had. But they don't really seem all that good at fixing weird annoying bugs. This would be a good place for people to comment with examples of past bugs which Apple has fixed. I only started using iOS with iOS 5, so I've only experienced two major updates. Each time they seemed to introduce many new features and a few new bugs, but didn't seem to fix many bugs, if any.

I suppose I'm not surprised by this. Most of Apple's resources during beta testing are probably dedicated to responding to bugs sighted people encounter, as most of Apple's customers are sighted. Moreover, it's probably easier to develop new features than it is to identify and correct VoiceOver bugs, and it's probably more rewarding to show off cool new accessibility features than it is to announce improved focus with VoiceOver.

I really hope I'm wrong, but I can't help thinking that iOS 8 will be released and we'll still have 95% of the existing bugs, a handful of new bugs and a few cool new flashy features. I like some of the additions in iOS 7, but I'd happily trade handwriting and greater prominence in the Settings app for improved VoiceOver stability and focus reliability. I appreciate what a fantastic job Apple does with accessibility in general, I just wish they'd alter their priorities a bit, and at least focus on eliminating VoiceOver bugs before developing new VoiceOver features.

Forum: 

iOS 7 bugs will they be fixed

hi, your answer to fixing bugs as of right now is a no. apple seems to have fallen asleep on the job when it comes to fixing issues like the voiceover focusing issue and as far as when you write to them, you just get blown off and passed over. this is the reason I am leaving in february to android, lets face it people, google seems to get what there customers are saying with talkback, and improving it, where as voiceover remains ever bug ridden and not improving at all. whether some want to hear this fact or not it's true, despite what some have argued on here android is useable everyday, yes, some apps aren't accessible as iOS, but honestly if apple doesn't get there act together, then they are going to be finding them selves on the losing end of blind phone subscribers, especially if kitkat makes a huge step forward in accessibility.

stuff that was fixed

Member of the AppleVis Editorial Team

Hi.
While I cannot fully disagree with the previous poster, Android has a loooong ways to go to catch up. They've made progress, but as a braille user, Android still remains quite useless. If I can't read my email messages themselves or books, sorry, that's a major deal breaker.
On to what has been fixed. In iOS 4, particularly with CDMA phones, braille displays wouldn't auto connect. They did in 5. Also, in my view, the compact version of Samantha was very difficult to understand, this was upgraded in 5.
Going from 5 to 6, Apple had broken access to HIMS products, and they fixed those. They also fixed the bug where when you select a rotor setting with a braille display, if speech was off, it would turn back on. This was fixed in 6.
I'll leave the speech fixes to someone who uses it more regularly. TO say they have a nest full of bugs to squash is very accurate, both with respect to speech and braille users. The reason many of these bugs were not reported to Apple was because many of them popped up after the gold master was released. In other words, these things were fine throughout the beta cycle, but broke somewhere between the last beta and the GM. The GM is the same thing that Apple releases to the public.

A lack of patience is one

A lack of patience is one thing that a lot of blind people seem to have. Microsoft takes ages to squash bugs that should have been fixed before an operating system is released. For those who expect immediate extermination of bugs, I wish you would consider the complexity of the task. In this case, it is far easier to request it than to deliver the wish. Folks, please, we've got to give them time!! Quit griping! If you have some constructive, and this is the key word, send it along to those who can make a difference. And, after you do, how about waiting for them to wade through the feedback before you bite their heads off for a lack of response? Doesn't the fact that there have already been two updates tell you anything at all??

facing facts

apparently some on here are new iOS users, because it seems to me it's the new people who say apples working on voiceover, apples going to fix it. I'm sorry to tell all of you that they are doing no such thing. I beta tested iOS 6 last year, and reported this bug to them, and they ignored me as a dev, and yes i was nice to them. there comes a point in time where being nice to a company isn't possible, especially if they keep ignoring the same requests. take for example braille display support. we've had issues sense iOS 5, some braille displays were not, and still are not supported, has apple done anything to fix this problem? not one thing. how many updates have we had over the last year, 4 for the 5 and 3 for the 4s and older. did any of the updates fix the braille issues? no they did not. if your going to come at people who have used iPhone sense the start, then please honestly get your facts straight before saying what you say. apple isn't fixing voiceover, and quite frankly the ones who argue about android not being accessible, clearly have not used the latest devices with talkback. all the arguments seem to be focused from a point of view of older android devices running gender bread, and folks, android has come a long way sense that time. I used a nexus four running android jellybean, and was able to use it just fine with no problems on a daily bases running talkback.

HI. Sure there are bugs, but

HI. Sure there are bugs, but some of them only affect some phones. I suspect these bugs might be hard to fix. I wouldn't say voice over hasn't been improved. Just go in to your photo vewer and look at the info that has been added. Also the 3 finger quadruple tap to copy the last phraise to the clip board is very handy. I have also noticed lots more info in various screens. There was a bug in Ios 6 which made game playing very annooying. This one was fixed pretty quickly. If apple didn't care about voice over, I don't think any improvements would be made. the ability to turn off voice over sounds which was requested has also been added. Another improvement that is voice over specific. Just some thoughts.

The "patience" concept is inappropriate

Member of the AppleVis Blog Team

When Apple released iOS 6 and generated a lot of trouble for users via its new Maps app, the internet was full of negative comments. Yet no one claimed that users are impatient. Apple users might or might not have a right to complain about bugs during beta cycles (that belongs to a different topic), but they do have a right to bug Apple when IOS is released and bugs are detected -- it has nothing to do with patience. Unlike Google, Apple releases major iOS updates once a year and brags about the accuracy of the whole process. After all, when you're dealing with a closed, highly controlled operating system like iOS, it's logically expected that annoying VoiceOver bugs such as the ones we're encountering should have been reported and taken care of. As far as my own testing is concerned, almost all of them were present in the final beta release, so they could have been fixed in the Goldmaster release.
When you're typing something and iPhone suddenly locks as if it were idle, when you're listening to music and hear the "Screen locked" message several times, when you're typing and alternative characters suddenly appear, when you're flicking and you suddenly realize that an item has been skipped due to the touch sensitivity issue, when heading navigation is almost broken -- as it's been for the past 12 months, when navigating around the text area in the Siri window or flicking left/right there is next to impossible, when folder badges aren't announced, when some characters aren't typed when fast-typing via Bluetooth keyboards, when iPhone 5s has some weird volume issues, etc., you might wonder what Apple's Accessibility team has been up to recently. Either no one reported these bugs -- which is quite unlikely, or they decided to ignore them or perhaps fix some of them after the release of iOS 7 -- which is definitely senseless and, I'm afraid, a bit insulting. If these were affecting sighted users, someone would have been fired there.
So, while I might not be as skeptical as the original poster, I do believe there's definitely something wrong with the way Apple currently tests features and devotes resources to bugs as far as accessibility is concerned. And while I also think Android can't efficiently compete with iOS in the arena of Braille -- for the time being, I do think it's fast approaching the iOS castle if one wants to use speech. It's not by no means perfect, but in the space of a single year both Android and TalkBack receive multiple updates and if you have a Nexus device you can take advantage of them.
That's just my two cents.

Some comments on Android

I know this topic isn't meant to turn into an iPhone vs. Android debate. But after reading some of the comments here, I can't help but weigh in.

In some ways, I do agree with the original poster, although for me personally, the current iOS 7 bugs don't interfere with my day-to-day use of the phone. Then again, I'm not experiencing all of the bugs that have been reported. I've only been an iPhone user for a little over 6 months, so I'd say I'm not familiar enough with how Apple does things to comment on whether I think any of the current bugs will get fixed.

Before I switched to the iPhone, I was a staunch supporter of Android. But I soon started to get frustrated at all the things I couldn't do. Granted, these weren't things that I absolutely NEEDED to do... more like things I WANTED to do. I was tired of seeing everyone post about all the games they were playing with their iPhones, when I was only able to play 1 or 2 games on any of my Androids. The number of accessible apps seemed to not be changing; there was the handful of apps I had since I first got my Android phone, and that was only increasing in tiny increments. I went from having about 35 apps on Android (not including the pre-installed ones), to about 90 on the iPhone.

Another issue I had was how quickly the phones were outdated. The Xperia Pro was released in late 2011, and I got it in early 2012. By September of 2012, I had already found out it wasn't going to be updated to Android 4.1 Jellybean. There was the option of unlocking the boot loader, rooting my phone and installing a custom Rom, but that's easy on some phones and not so much on others. The Xperia Pro was one where the process seemed intimidating, and since it was my only phone, I decided not to chance it.

There are things I do miss about Android (the main one being the ability to choose which TTS voice I used on a daily basis). But for me, it wasn't enough to keep me there. Granted, I'll say Talkback has come a long way in the 6 months since I left Android (I installed the latest release last night, just to check things out). But Android still has a long way to go. I can't say that I'll never use another Android though, because if things change drastically in the future, I'd be all for trying it out again.

Sure, you will have no problems at all using an Android device on a daily basis (that was actually possible even with Gingerbread). And if that's what you're looking for, go for it; it's all down to personal preference. But for me, I wanted more out of my device than that. It was fine at first, but I was truly unimpressed with the lack of accessible apps.

Fixing Bugs or Adding Features

A number of you have pointed to ways in which Apple has improved VoiceOver. These were mostly all what I would describe as added features. Things like improved braille display support, quadruple three finger tap to copy, etcetera. One thing which was mentioned which was a bug was the router gesture turning speech back on if it was off. This bug is still present for me running iOS 7.0.2 on an iPhone 4S.

I'm not complaining that Apple doesn't do enough to improve VoiceOver. What I'm saying is, firstly, that we're more likely to see new VoiceOver features before we see the existing bugs fixed; and secondly, that I personally would prefer Apple to prioritise fixing existing bugs over developing new features. Things like Siri cutting off and asking for a response before she/he finishes speaking, the difficulty accessing some of the info Siri displays, VoiceOver focus jumping over some controls, focus issues on some webpages – all these kinds of things are really annoying and affect my day-to-day use of VoiceOver. They cost me more time than I save with quadruple tap to copy, for instance. But, as I said, I understand it's probably easier for Apple to develop these new features than it is to fix bugs. Just another reason why I think we'll be getting new features before we get bug fixes.

As for the Apple versus Android issue, I've never used Android myself so I'm no authority on the issue, but I really doubt it is completely bug free and 100% accessible. My guess is it has it's share of problems, and that these probably differ among the huge range of Android devices, which would make it really difficult from an accessibility standpoint. And this seems to be backed up by comments from people who have tried Android both on this posting and elsewhere. Things would have to get quite a lot worse before I'd consider switching.

my two cents

while i tend to be on the more negative side of things when it comes to apple, IOS7 has allowed me to reconsider things a bit. now, this does not mean that i am now what could be called a fan boy, far from the truth, but i am more positive about apple. IOS 7 has been the best software upgrade i have ever done. i have had an Iphone for 2 years now and have been in it since IOS 5. i had a jail broken iphone for a few months before upgrading to IOS 7 and the first thing i did was add a control center, then i got rid of the spotlight search, which bugged me to high heaven when it would pop up when i would accidentally hit the home button to many times, and allow my folders to have more than 12 things in a folder. now that apple has allowed this to be integrated into the regular old software, i like the plain old operating system better. thats not saying that there are things about apple i don't like, and android does have IOS beat in several huge areas but, IOS has, for me, gotten better.
now to talk about the bugs in voice over. yes the bugs are annoying. some of them i could live with. that doesn't mean i don't think they shouldn't be fixed. to the contrary, i am all for getting them fixed. however i will make a comparison here.
saying that the NVDA verses JAWS debate is similar to the IOS verses android debate isn't a far stretch of the imagination. to me, jaws releases things in there new versions of their software. however, they don't seem to fix old bugs and update code for modern things. for example. they are just now releasing jaws 15 which finally supports touch screen devices and windows 8.1. yet windows 8 has been out for more than a year. NVDA has had support for touch screen devices and windows 8.1 for the longest time. there code is updated far more frequently than the code for jaws is. it is easier to shove in a new feature than to try and trouble shoot a problem that may or may not be replicated and may or may not even fix it. this is what both apple and jaws are doing shoving new features in with very little reguard for fixing things in the passed when talking about bugs.
going back to IOS, people have said that there are bugs that are in voice over since IOS 6. so lets try and figure out why these bugs haven't been fixed. i see several options why.
1. they don't know. i find this highly unlikely. firstly because blind people usually have one of the loudest voices when something bad goes wrong in the blindness world. if something brakes, trust me you will hear about it with in minutes of people finding out. plus, i have seen countless reports of someone saying that i have reported such and such to the accessibility team at apple, and it still isn't fixed, or something similar.
2. they know about it however, they are unable to fix it yet because they haven't figured out a solution in order to fix it. while somewhat likely, apple would want to higher the best and the brightest people to code for them. if the code for voice over was that complicated that it takes people over a year to fix simple bugs, there needs to be a huge rewriting of the code for voice over.
3. finally, they can't fix it and/or they wont or don't care. if they are unable to fix these issues, apple needs to higher new people. also, i have heard reports of bugs that are still plaguing IOS since IOS 5 which is about to years old. two years is a very long time. also take into consideration that blind people can be very, as i talked about above, loud when something goes wrong. sometimes on the point of almost being belligerent. i'm sorry, but if you ignore people like that for almost two years on bugs that need to be fixed, thats pretty sad.

on the android side of things, as i've said before on many occasions, both android and IOS have there draw backs and both have there advantages. by no means is talk back perfect, and by no means is voice over perfect either. i'm not going to go into the advantages of android over IOS because, i've done that in other places, and this isn't the right topic. however, i will say that google has impressed me more with not only there business model, but the way they handle talk back and the method in which to interact with your device is way more intuitive. there several more, but this post is getting long enough.
in summery, i fear that if apple doesn't get up off there proverbial high horse of every thing is happy go lucky and we are the best of the best, and look around at what is happening around them, they are about to get bit in the backside and lose out on a seat at the table of the future of computing.

Android Vs. iPhone

Hello,
People need to be more patient with Apple's accessibility team. We're just one type of people with disability. The Accessibility Team can't give all their resources towards VoiceOver. They also have to work on accessibility features for people with other disabilities. I really don't know why blind people think they're the only ones who are talked about when someone talks about accessibility. They have to create solutions for others as well. Now, iOS 7 went through a major redesign, so by saying Apple Accessibility isn't giving enough effort is false. I bet if the team wouldn't of made any changes to VO at all, iOS 7 would be completely unusable for us. Its now more visual than ever, and it would probably be as usable as an app from the App Store with visual interfaces and no buttons, links, etc. As for Apple Vs. Android, I can state my opinion on that. Android will not, and will most likely not in the near future, replace iOS for me. I own a Nexus 7, and I always find myself reaching out for my iPad instead of using the Nexus.

Apple and IOS8

Hello All,

I have read both sides of the fence on this thread. It is time to add my two cents. IOS7 is a totally redesigned platform from the ground up. It isn't like the transition from IOS 5 to IOS6. It is a different kind of animal. Ask any developer; let alone a blind developer. Some developers have had to redesign their applications from the ground up as well. Yes, there are bugs; but there will always be bugs and that is how it goes with Apple, or any device maker for that matter, this is nothing new. All of the bugs are relative though as some are not seen on some devices, for whatever reason, and some just don't get in the way of an individuals daily use of the device like my self for instance. Patience is needed as several individuals have given tangible proof that apple fixes bugs. Are they fixed in a timely mannor? Again, that is relative, what is an acceptable time frame for one might not be for another. Is Android closing the gap? Maybe, but all I have to do is use one of their apps on my IOS7 platform and flick through the app counting the number of unlabeled buttons to form my own opinions on how serious they are taking accessibility. Patience people, it has only been 10 days since the GM release of IOS 7 and rome was not built in a day, a week or a month even. To sum up my two cents, I will paraphrase from one of my favorite podcasters, if you want to talk and text; get an android, but if you want to do more; get an I-Phone. Apple has not forgotten about us, things just take time and in this ever increasing, give it to me now world(what have you done for me lately), patience is lost out there. On one other note, can I just say that I am incredibly tired of Brandon. His posts with respect to apple have been nothing but negative. Brandon, just go and get your android and be happy then, because we don't need your countless posts about android here. If you haven't noticed; the site is called AppleVis. Go be a fanboy on android access or something like that. -Andrew-

IOS 7

One slip of the finger in the title people, just one slip! IOS 7! shhheeesh! -Andrew-

Quote

Andrew, well said, especially that quote!

My thoughts on this matter

I usually don't post on here that often, but here are my thoughts on the comments here.

As far as the buggs go, apple is working hard to fix them. I have noticed that the ios 7.0.2 release has sourt of fixed some buggs that voice over users are experiencing, and I have made several reports of the buggs we are having to deal with, and apple is working on them. As for this brandon guy who wants an android, Stop bragging about it, and get one already. But I will tell you this, If you have problems with android, I don't want to hear what you have to say about it. It was your choice to go with a product that has limited accessibility solutions. Yeah, apple has its problems, but we are all human, and the posts about the android should be removed from this sight if you ask me. This sight is about accessibility of apple products only, not about who has better accessibility, weather it be apple or android. I mean come on. Didn't the founder of the apple vis websight create this wonderful websight for apple users to share there eperiences with there apple products? This aint an andrord fest budd. Lets keep it that way. As for everyone else, I have made several reports of the voice over buggs, and I seriously think apple is working on fixing them for us. As one poster had said, apple doesn't think about just the blind, they have other disibilities to think about as well. Thanks for reading.

settle down people

okay people. we just need to settle down and let the steam dissipate. this shouldn't turn into a firefight. i'm going to address a few things here and hopefully you all understand.
firstly, i do understand that blind people aren't the only people when we talk about the blanket term of accessibility. there are deaf people and motor impaired people as well. however a good business model would divide the accessibility team so part of the team would be working on just one aspect of the whole accessibility suite within IOS. so that people can focus there work on one area and not have to continually jump back and forth. while i don't know if that is the case, one would hope that would be the case.
next, apple has built themselves a pedestal upon which they can stand and look down on us like the tiny people we are. they have created this image of we are so high and mighty and we are going to be the best of the best and no one will stop us in that pursuit. they have acomplished this some what. however, lets look at apple's track record. lets look at this accessibility team. they seem mostly to be good about getting back to people, however, i also hear people say that have repeatedly contacted the accessibility team and never hear back. so its hard to know what to believe in that situation. next, there ability and/or track record of fixing bugs. i have mentioned before that 'we are still encountering bugs in IOS that are still around since IOS 5 and 6 which are pieces of software that are over a year old, almost two years. the fact they haven't fixed these bugs now is completely inexcusable. not even mentioning the bugs in IOS 7. while i do know that it was a completely new overhaul of the IOS OS, i'm very astounded that these bugs weren't caught. what were they doing, sleeping on the job? let me give an example here. i own a house and my roof starts leaking. like any sensable person i call up a company so that they can come out and fix my leaky roof. i call them and i hear back from them , but they never show up. time passes and i continue to contact them and they say they will be there and they are working on scheduling me in, but they never show up. by this time its a few months later, completely fed up with the first company, i call a second company and they come out within a day and fix my roof. so i'm back under my leak free roof nice and dry lounging on the couch. the first company is apple's accessibility team. they say they will fix things but months, if not years go passed, and the bugs are never fixed. i'm supprised if some of the bugs will ever get fixed by the looks of things now. the second company is google and the eyes free team which develops talk back for android. i have found them to be very reseptive not only to fixing bugs, but to adding new features. they push updates very frequently and fix bugs in a very timely manor. where apple's team, its even questionable if they will ever fix some of the bugs in IOS right now.
lastly, i would be highly a posed to the deletion of comments on this sight. i could see the situation for it if someone was being disrespectful to another user, or abusing there rights on this sight, but if all people are doing is posting civil comments about a different operating system and going about it civilly, i don't see any harm in that. for example, if there was a site for vegetarians and some people who were not vegetarians started posting on the sight, but going about it in a civil manor, there is nothing wrong with that. on the contrary, i would think that it would be an abuse of power on behalf of the site admins to start deleting comments. all we are doing here is exercising our right to free speech. if site admins are going to throw there weight around and start deleting comments i'd say that's abusing there positions and that could be classified as something not very far from censorship.
hopefully you all understand where i'm coming from here.

My thoughts on all this...

I quite definitely agree with many of the other posts here, but I'd like to add my thoughts here as well.

1. Firstly about the iPhone verses android thing, Mr. Armstrong just needs to go get an android and be happy. He is painting an incorrect picture about android, there are many bugs in that operating system as well, and when something isn't fixed that he thinks should be, and if, for some reason, google doesn't fix it fast enough, then I don't want to hear about it. I'm not saying google and android are bad, or even sub-par, please don't misunderstand me on this point. What I'm saying is that there are many bugs in android as well and when you buy a phone with either OS on it, you take a chance of having some unsquashed bugs, and you learn to work around them!

Android is not the perfect, end-all be-all of operating systems and he is a fool to think it is.
He insists that's not the case but his posts certainly seem to say differently. He is fast becoming what people on internet forums call a trole.
2. As for iOS 7 I also agree, patience is what's needed. I am disappointed that some long-standing bugs from previous operating systems weren't crushed, but you know what?
I dare any of you to build a better operating system with accessibility features built in. This is not something you can just push a few buttons and create, boom boom boom. Apple is a big company and it's very nice that they included accessibility into their operating system, they are to be commended. But I'm about to tell you guys something that a lot of you aren't going to like but it's the truth. We are a minority. Unfortunately minorities don't get their problems pushed to the top of Apple's bug list, no matter how loudly we scream. We need to work around these bugs until there are fixes for them, and if there aren't we need to
do our best to make Apple aware of them, and keep doing so until they are fixed!
Ok. those are my thoughts whatever they might be worth, 2 cents or otherwise.

well tunehead, have you ever

well tunehead, have you ever even used android? by the way you talk about it i could make a guess that the answer to that question is a resounding no. while IOS nor android is perfect in any, way, android has a lot fewer bugs than you think. infact a lot less than IOS at this point. i do have an android device and if you want to go ahead and make baseless clames go head, but please, please, please do your research before making statements about stuff you don't know about.

whether we are the minority isn't the point in this situation. if we talk to the accessibility team for either operating system to them we are the majority and only people they see about bugs. so if they are just going to sit there and twittle there thumbs while the bugs pile up, i'll let them get fired. i talked in my previous post that it takes IOS/voice over bugs years to get resolved where on the other hand android/talk back takes a matter of weeks, if not a few months. so you tell me who sounds better.

my response...

Once again people don't pay attention. I did not say android is bad or anything...I simply said that no matter which type of phone you buy there are going to be bugs. That's a fact.

Let's Move this Along...

Member of the AppleVis Editorial Team

Nicholas,

You ask if you think if Apple is really giving us the time and the attention to actually resolve the current and past iOS problems.

Personally, I do think they are trying and yes I do think they will resolve issues as more updates will come out. People will have to understand that the 7.0.1 was for the Touch ID problem on the 5s and that the 7.0.2 was to resolve the serious flaw when the phone was supposed to be locked with a passcode.

So as with any release of a brand new iOS. We will just experience issues and bugs. This is a very natural and normal thing. As we had seen for the iOS 5 and the iOS 6. Those contained a lot of bugs as well. The further in us got with update. The more stable it got. I mean I personally thought that 90% of the bugs were riddle out for Voice Over users when we got the 6.1.4. Those are just my opinion of course. Nothing can or will ever be perfect.

So I have no doubt they will come out with better and stable release of the iOS 7 in due time. If I recalled iOS 6.1 didn't come out until January of 2013. It just takes time.

If anyone writes to the Apple Accessibility Team will and should receive an e-mail that clearly states that you may or may not get a response. This doesn't mean they aren't reading it. I can assure you of this. Plus, this is a normal and typical reply we would get from Google, Amazon, Microsoft and such. So this isn't just an Apple thing.

The more details you give them the better. As with many places. They will need to successfully replicate the problem. Many moons ago. I was a programmer. If I couldn't replicate it or get enough information. The harder it was for me to resolve and fix. Sometimes, sadly as it is. If I couldn't replicate it. It just didn't get fixed. However, I think with anything else. The more tickets we received for the same problem. The higher of the chance it had to get this resolved. We just had more tickets than we had time. So the higher priority was the ones we focused on in getting fixed. Everything just couldn't be fixed before we had to move on to other projects. Now this is only my experience. So Apple may be entirely different. So take this with a grain of salt.

As one has mentioned on here is that we have to remember that the Apple Accessibility Team has to resolve many other issues besides those that are blind. Plus, sometime a team may have multiple functions. There was a time that people were pulled from one project to another and then back to what we're doing before.

In all honestly, I have no idea where or how this became an iOS vs. Android subject. As both devices do have their pros and cons. This site is AppleVis after all. It was designed for people with Apple devices. Not to say we can't ever discuss about the Android but this is like talking about your Chevy at a Ford dealership. This will ruffle some feathers. So you have to expect that when a subject like that comes up.

If people think Android is great and wonderful. I am really happy for you. That is great. I wish all the best for you.

I have no desire to discuss in what I think of the Android because it would be pointless and mindless to do so. We all have opinions and we all think we are right. Also, I have no desire to get in to mudslinging comments and such.

So no I don't think Apple has dropped the ball at all. This is just my two cents. I still very much believe that Apple is a solid product. They provide awesome customer services. They continue to innovate. The devices and products are made with the most superior quality. Plus, it has been a blessing and I am so grateful that we even have something like this in our lives. My life as a blind infidel has changed so much. It has helped and made things easier for my life.

I can't imagine what blind inviduals had to deal with 20 years ago? Or even 10 years ago! I love that we have choices and we just have to pick what we think works for you the best.

So hang in there Nicholas. Just keep sending those problems to Apple. Encourage your friends to do the same. Remember to give them as much details as you can. I can only hope for the best for you.

Cheers,
AnonyMouse

Personally I think we should be contacting Apple

Personally, I believe that, although this is a good way to compare information, we need to be directly voicing our problems to Apple itself. The reason why is because they are the ones who will make changes to the os and Voiceover.

Yes, I am aware that people have been contacting apple repeatedly about old and new bugs, but that doesn't mean we should give up. Frankly, maybe doing something like app of the month for IOS 7X overall would be a good idea because it will allow us to present a petition for apple to consider and possibly fix some of the bugs that have been plaguing us since IOS 5X. The focus bug is a pretty major one for me personally and I wish it would get fixed more than any other bug at this point.

So let's continually email and call apple's accessibility line and bug them about the bugs we see. It doesn't have to be impatience if its organized and done professionally.

contacting apple

here is the problem i find with all this. when ever someone says anything about a bug, everyone is just like contact apple. but what about, no, contact apple. however, what has all the contacting gotten you? they can't even fix bugs that are more than a year if not two years old and the latest IOS has dropped the ball on accessibility in the biggest way ever. i'm sorry, but i would like apple to fix some of these major bugs before they gain some of my respect back.

How does it help to only voice issues on Applevis?

I understand your issues with contacting apple. But how else are they supposed to know about the bugs? Yes, we have all individually contacted Apple about our issues, but we have never done it as a unified entity. Also, if all you want to do is voice frustrations on this website, how will it ever be resolved?

By all means, voice your frustrations. But only complaining to eachother will resolve nothing. Neither you nor I or anyone has the skills to recode an entire os and it's supplemental accessibility program. We need the ones who can to hear us and create change. Whether or not Apple actually cares is up for debate. But, it is the only company that provides the level of accessibility that we have become used to. Usually those bugs that sighted people complain about are resolved because there are a big number of people complaining. They might be posting But it's because so many are complaining that Apple actually changes and fixes bugs.

In my opinion, we need to have a unified voice, saying the same thing, and wanting the same thing. One or two of us might not be heard, but a hundred or a thousand of us will be. Just like our fellow cited iPhone users

If you want to go to Android

If you want to go to Android just go with Android. This is an Apple forum. I'll never understand why people have to come toss sand around. I get being frustrated, but if I went ot Android I'd just leave. I wouldn't come in to an Apple forum stomp my feet and toss sand around. To think that other opperating systems don't have any bugs is crazy, but whatever. Nothings perfect hell I'm using Jaws and it's not perfect either and they've had like what 13 years to make it perfect? Things change way to fast to catch everything.

Enough and MoveOn people!

Enough people! This website is about each of us helping each other not bickering about operating system. It's time to work together and not worry about what phone somebody's using.
John

Correct! It's all about choice

This is absolutely what I've been saying all along, but people only catch part of what I'm saying. The iOS fans have made up their minds and aren't going to change it and the Android fans aren't going to change theirs either, so lets stop trying to do that and focus on being more helpful. If all people can do is complain it doesn't help anyone in the grand scheme of things.

The Applevis home page.

My last and final comment before I unsubscribe to this forum I think everyone should reread the homepage I think it says it all.
John

summing everything up

i think everyone has taken the android comments way to seriously. they aren't a vendetta against you personally. so people just need to cool off about this whole situation.
secondly, all we were doing was pointing out our frustration about how slowly if ever bugs are fixed in IOS. as a counter point we pointed out how quickly android fixes there bugs. whether that is a matter of weeks or months the point still is valid that android bugs are squashed unlike IOS ones seem to be.
if you all want to continue to shout at the brick wall that is the IOS accessibility team go ahead. who am i to stop you. i hope that the people that make up the applevis comunity could be a little bit more open minded than i've seen in this forum. all we are trying to do is point out how the grass is greener on the other side. we don't need our throats jumped down for saying the word android just because this is an apple/IOS forum.

the team is working on it

Hello,
I guess its safe for me to say that I have close contact with the accessibility team at Apple, so I can safely say that they're working on those bugs which are reproducible on iOS. This is partially the reason why certain bugs on OS X haven't been fixed in a while.

a sense of perspective

You know, as I read this topic I begin to wonder whether part of the reason for not making as much progress as we would like on issues such as this is threads like this. We all have opinions, we all have various annoyances, but I have to say that some have expressed themselves in the most unhelpful way. Allusions to tiny people and high horses are unlikely to win us any friends.

For myself, there are issues with IOS 7 that are annoyances. The touchscreen sensitivity is one, the change in location of the delete key is another, Siri's idiosyncracies is another. However, that's all they are. have I missed out on information because of the slight problems with the Voiceover focus? no, quite honestly I have not. You may have, but I have not. Is it not quite as I would like it to be? I suppose that would be a fair summary of the position, but it's not something I'm losing any sleep over. I am prepared to wait, and again speaking for myself i would far rather Apple fixed the very serious issue there was with the passcode before turning to matters like this.

I note what some people have said about Voiceover bugs' being present for a couple of years or more. I have used an iPhone for over three years now and I can't say this particular problem has really registered on my agenda, but I take the point. In answer, I would echo what has been said about IOS 7's being built from the ground up. It really has been a major redesign, perhaps something that blind people understandably don't appreciate so easily. I am told it looks very different anyhow. Given that, I have to say that the fact that the vast majority of things work, and indeed work very well (better in some cases than on IOS 6)) is enough for me to be content to wait. All things considered I have a brilliant device that allows me to control my Sky+, read the latest book releases in perfectly rendered UK braille, play a vast selection of games and access my professional documents in a way unthinkable only three or four years ago. I'm happy with that and will wait for the rest for a fair while longer.

I have no observations on Android. It hasn't figured in my thinking, but I daresay if you prefer that operating system it isn't a crime, and with my Tory Thatcherite hat on I can only say hurrah for the free market and consumer choice.

Hello everyone. Just acquired

Hello everyone.
Just acquired an iPhone 4s from my carrier. I can't say I'm having major bugs in iOS 7. In fact, it runs excellent compared to that on my iPhone 4, which has now retired from usage. Siri and dictation are working very well, and got the face detection to work too.
I know these are not iOS 7 specific but there are enhancements to these areas for sure.

I don't know how I feel with this discussion regarding iOS 7 bugs and whether they will be fixed.
Just my £0.02 worth.

I would like to ask a

I would like to ask a question for those of you who are still so bitter about the iOS7 bugs. Why not just downgrade to 6? There is still time for that, isn't there? Is iOS7 really worth all the hassle you are all experiencing? I myself haven't upgraded. I learned my lesson when I updated to iOS6 as soon as it came out--that was awful. Yet, 6 was worth it in the end--the map feature alone saw to that.
As far as Android goes, I'd love a chance to try it out. I know that I won't be switching any time soon though, because one of the main things I do with my phone is games. I know that at least six games are accessible under Android, but overall I'd be bored to tears. One advantage of Android would be the ability to easily make my own games using Basic4Android, and that would be awesome, but it definitely wouldn't be worth trading my iPhone for. If I had a choice, I'd buy the newest Android and keep my iPhone, getting the best of both worlds.

The problem is, Apple has

The problem is, Apple has stopped signing iOS 6 for all devices as of a couple of weeks ago. So even if one manages to find an image of iOS 6, iTunes will still try to verify this image with Apple, and it will fail, leaving a device bricked. The only way to get it going again is to restore it back to iOS 7. Sorry all but you will just have to deal with it now and update when appropriate. This is for those who are on iOS 7 and are still fussy about the bugs. This is Apple's own policy and not a technical or legal one.

...

So here's the deal… A lot of people talk about how the iOS and it's supplemental accessibility features is a complex code… It is going to take a long time for bugs to get squash… But here's my main gripe. Many of the bugs that a lot of people are experiencing with iOS 7 are bugs that would not go overlooked if the product have been properly tested. If the following specific bugs are in fact universal… I have no idea how you could miss things like voiceover not announcing folder badges, accessibility issues when composing a new message (however minor these maybe), lack of accessibility when flicking through your favorites list, etc. etc. I've said this here so many times but I'll use my own bug report as an example… Back in July I reported the Safari issues that many of us have been having on the Mack OS… Around the time I reported this bug I also talked to other visually impaired Mac users who have reported the same bug. They said that the accessibility team told them that they could not replicate the bug on their computers. For about 2 to 3 weeks Apple accessibility Tried to blame the Safari issues on flash animations… even after my first email… Which explained how I encountered and worked around the bug in great detail… They acted like they didn't know whether or not I was using voice over on an eye device or a Mac… My descriptions were very clear and described precise voiceover key commands that are native to the Mac operating system. Finally… When I told them that I sat down at a MacBook Pro at an Apple store and was able to reproduce the bug right off the bat… All of a sudden they were able to reproduce the bug on their computers. This makes me think that they were being rather dismissive to previous claims… And had not truly and scientifically tried to replicate the issues that a lot of us have been having in the first place. Maybe they launch Safari once and it didn't happen so they thought that they were in the clear.
Also… Asking administrators to delete comments that mention android is typical Apple fandom. Many users of Apple products (either cited or blind… Able-bodied or disabled…) Have the potential to become deliriously loyal to the company thanks to their marketing techniques. Things like the control Center and notification center were on the android operating system before Apple ever include them in the iOS. I'm not trying to play favorites… Just speaking truth. It never hurts to know the truth. Sure… Plenty of companies have copied what Apple has done with their iOS devices… But Apple is not above that. I have no plans to switch anytime soon but I am interested in trying android devices. The consensus seems to be, however, that android is great for basic phone functions but iOS offers you so much more. It seems like even with all of the bugs that currently plague iOS 7 Apple is still the more accessible choice. Also I think it is important to remember that people are well within their rights to complain about various aspects of Apple technology as well as how Apple operates as a company. This site is a site dedicated to users of Apple products who are visually impaired and blind… But there is nothing that says we have to gush over everything they do. Personally… I am one of the lucky ones who was still able to downgrade to iOS 6.1.4… I think is absolutely ridiculous that people had such a small window of time to downgrade. I think people should be aloud to downgrade two previous OS whenever they want. Apple's reasoning for this is probably something along the lines of "well as software advances older versions of the OS will not keep up and will start to miss behave…" But that's absolutely no reason to take away the option of downgrading. I have also heard that many of the ports on Apple's devices actually have driver chips associated with them… So if ports are malfunctioning a lot of the times you have to replace the entire motherboard… Which is completely ridiculous. I am not so familiar with this last issue… So please somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Otherwise… As stated in previous comments. We are unbelievably lucky and blessed to live in an age where this kind of accessibility exists in such mainstream technology.
My consensus… Apple is a company who makes technology and happen to be really good at implementing accessibility. Beyond that though… They are just a company. They are not impervious to flaw. They should not be followed blindly. It is important to keep an observant post and note any changes in their demeanor or behavior. Although I wish them continued success… Who knows… 10 years from now they could have collapsed due to internal disintegration.

Oh and just to reiterate… Just because we are minority doesn't give us any less of a right to complain about accessibility. By that logic the civil rights movement was one big cry fest. Some of you may think this comparison rather outlandish… But think about it… Just as minorities have fought for the rights to vote, become educated, and generally integrate into mainstream society… Us disabled folks have the same right. We have just as much of a right to get equal usage out of an operating system as anybody else. For those of you who still think this comparison crazy… Just think of all the day-to-day tasks that everyone else in the world does that you would be excluded from if you didn't have access to whatever operating systems you work with on a daily basis. These day today – tasks are imperative to modern communication.
We've got to be strong, sensible, positive, and confident. We also have to be patient and tolerant… Well I do have my skepticism about Apple accessibility's quality control… I do understand that fixing bugs takes time. Also if the company is just beginning to implement accessibility features into an operating system is not going to be perfect the first go around… So you have to be patient to allow them to get things right. Such as been the case with Google for the past few years. But when there is some evidence to indicate that the accessibility team of a company who has been almost universally praised for their commitment to accessibility doesn't take bug claims seriously that's an entirely different issue. Unfortunately in the case of Apple… Multiple user reports have the potential to reflect these unfortunate circumstances. I hope this isn't the case… And I hope I'm proven wrong.

agreed greg

i agree with a lot of what your saying Greg. however i would like to take a bit of a step back with what i have previously said. one point that i did completely skip over is the fact of how the accessibility is implemented in android verses IOS devices. with IOS devices the only screen reader you can have is voice over. there is no icon for it and it can not be downloaded from the app store. further more the only way to get updates to voice over is in a operating system update by apple. which they do very infrequently. so in order to have some of these bugs squashed, we have to wait for another update of the operating system. which will be who knows when.
for android there first off are several different screen readers. some of them vary in different ways, but the best one is talk back. while it is preinstalled on android devices, especially if you are running jellybean, you can download it from the play store. same way with braille back. braille back i believe is not installed by default. you have to go to the play store and download it specifically. that beeing said, the teams working on those screen readers don't have to wait for google to release a new soft where update to fix bugs with the screen readers. they just have to push an update to the Google play store. and it will download it automatically for everyone. this also goes for a lot of preinstalled apps on android devices. soft ware updates don't mean a whole lot any more. apps are just updated and it makes for a better ecosystem in my opinion. plus several more reasons.
as far as android being simpler, while that is true in some ways, that isn't the whole truth. there are several different launchers which simplify the phone to like one home screen and with very few buttons. the one that comes to mind is equaleyes. not exactly sure if i spelled that right. but there are still many options for very advanced users. the only downfall for android at this point is the lack of accessible games. while there are a few, there is no where near as many as there are in IOS. one thing i prise android on is being very intuitive and easy to use. there are several things on IOS that are way to complicated and are way to complex. but i'll get off my soap box here and see what you all have to say.

Kyle… You make some very

Kyle… You make some very excellent points… And I think it is very useful for us folks who have been so loyal to Apple to hear this perspective. One thing I would like to ask, however, is in what ways is android more intuitive? I have always thought the iOS was one of the most intuitive and accessible pieces of technology that I've ever used… And I was always under the impression that the android operating system was not as intuitive, at least when it came to accessibility.

speaker phone issue

I recently contacted apple accessibility about a bug me and some other users have found in the 4s and the proximity sensor not always changing to the ear peace when answering a call, they told me they are building a case of complaints on this and working to get the right people involved to fix this issue, despite the bugs, I love apple and I do like IOS7. I was able to set my IPhone up without sighted help do to the tripple home key click, does other phone companies have this? I don't think so! I also think voiceover is a heck of a lot more stable than jaws! I just don't own a mac because I can't aford it right now or I would.

Don't get me wrong I love

Don't get me wrong I love apple products and Voiceover... I just think it's important to call it how you see it. Glad to know they gave you a transparent reply to your report. To answer your question... yes I do believe devices running android do have a way for independent set-up for visually impaired folks. I remember reading an article where an individual was able to independently start up accessibility and set up his Android tablet with some sort of two-finger hold. I imagine it's the same for a phone. Someone could probably answer this better than me.

Disillusioned

I am so disillusioned with the recent OS offerings from Microsoft and Apple. It seems we have gone backwards on accessibility features. I bought a new Asus tablet with full Windows 8 which proved to be unusable with Narrator on as many essential features did not work. The tablet is now in a cupboard awaiting Windows 8.1 in the possibly forlorn hope that I will be able to use it after the update.

I installed IOS7 on my iPad and am now experiencing many of the reported bugs with VO on including Safari crashes, erratic focus, freezing for several seconds etc.

I was a programmer in a previous life and I well know the problems with fixing bugs. It is all too easy to fix one bug and introduce three more in some seemingly unrelated area. Very careful planning. implementation and TESTING is essential.

Microsoft and Apple are huge companies employing the cream of the IT world and with a customer base in the millions. There is no excuse for releasing an OS with such basic bugs. Many of these reported bugs are common and reproducible and should have been picked up in the testing phase. It took me literally seconds after installing OS7 to find irritating bugs. I find it incredible that these were not fixed before the release.

Microsoft and Apple need to calm dow, fix all known bugs in the current OS before rushing headlong into a poorly tested radical new OS, just to try and protect market share.

setting up an iPhone with vo from scratch requires a computer:

from recent experience if you are setting up a new device from scratch, you must use a computer to get vo started.

For the curious, I found out by following the steps below.

1> use iCloud to erase your phone.
2> turn it on.

No audio do you get even when pressing home three times. No revolving spoken languages, nothing till you begin the process via the computer.

With iOS 7, though, you can

With iOS 7, though, you can use Siri to turn on VoiceOver. This process would make it easier for any new user to set up his or her device. I'm aware that other people have discussed this aspect on the website, and in truth I am in agreement with some of the views: I think it's a cool feature.

griping

I have not used Android devices and my only experience with IOS has been with my iPhone 4 (just ordered an iPhone 5S) - but if the Android phones are so much better and intuitive in terms of accessibility, my hat's off to Android, because I find IOS 7 has some excellent improvements, many of them covered extensively in Applevis, after updating to 7.02 I am not having any of the issues I initially had with 7.0 - also I listened to David Woodbridge podcast on IOS 7 which I would recommend to anyone updating. Yet reading some of the comments written here, some might get the impression that the iPhone and IOS 7 are horrible - I just don't get that. I know some of the bugs are specific to some models and settings, but for my experience, Apple has made some very nice enhancements and I much prefer IOS 7 to previous versions. If Android is better, well kudos to those who have it, I am pleased enough with what I get from Apple devices that I have no compelling reason not to stick with Apple.

bringing this topic back on topic

i will try to bring this topic back on topic here and try to answer some of the questions posed.
yes on android you are able to enable talk back with a two finger hold on the screen. it is very accessible right out of the box like an i device is. where you run into issues are when third party carriers start skinning and throwing there own apps, skins, keyboards, and launchers into the mix. plus other things that might not interact with talk back in a friendly manor. the one i can think of off hand is samsung's touch wiz launcher and there default keyboard. while the touch wiz launcher can be usable, you are better off installing something like nova launcher. and replacing the samsung keyboard with the google keyboard. one of the benfits of android is that if you don't like something about your device, unless its a hardware issue, you are able to tweek it or change it or get something completely different to make it work for you. i think of it like a jail broken i device right out of the box. with an easier and more intuitive screen reader.
greg as far as the more intuitiveness of android goes, i can tell you the operating system is way more intuitive. the notifications are a lot more useful. you can do things like reply to emails right there in the notification shade, plus a few more things right in the shade with out having to even open the associated app. the android version of the control center, which has been around on android since litterally its beginning, is a lot more handy. plus it actually has a settings button which the IOS one really needs. plus the widgets on android make things a whole lot more convenient. you don't even have to reopen the app to play, pause, fast forward, and rewind stuff. you can all do it from the home screen. i have widgets for facebook, twitter, foursquare, audible, tune-in, pandora, and overdrive media consul. i also have a widget which has all of my quick toggles: wifi, GPS, airplain mode, sink, brightness, and bluetooth so i don't even have to go into the quick toggles center. its just right there on my home screen.
as far as talk back goes, the most fingers you are ever going to have to use is two. you scroll with 2 fingers. but its not a flick. you move two fingers up and down the screen like a sighted person would scroll with there one finger. it makes for a much more smoother experience and not any of this jerky jumpy scrolling that IOS does. pluss it plays incramental tones. so as you get further down the list the pitches get higher. so you know when you are getting close to the bottom. also, if you have perfect pitch, which i don't, and you know that the thing you are looking for is when the tones reach a b flat, it is easier for you to find things just that more. plus talk back has several l shaped gestures that do several different things and can be customized to your liking as well. for example. a up and left swipe will take you out of anything you are doing and right back to the last home screen you were last on. also, the down and left gesture will take you back one screen so you don't even have to find the back button. yeah yeah, i know what you all are going to say, we have the home button and the two finger scrub gesture. well the scrub gesture doesn't work all the time. it has to be specifically coded in to the app. i have found that the down and left gesture works in every condition i tested it in. any app, any place, and any time. these are just a few examples of gestures, but like i said before talk back is very easy to use. none of this mucking about with 3 fingers or even 4 fingers. let alone triple tapping or even quadruple tapping things. the gestures and things to memorize are very minimal and yet it gets everything done very quickly and simply. i litterally picked my nexus 7 tablet up and with in 10 minutes i had all the gestures right in front of me and had them all down. when i got my iphone, there were gestures i still didn't know and i had had it for a year. just a few months ago, i learned a new gesture and by now i've had my iphone for almost 2 years. if there is one place that android lags behind IOS is the accessible games. but i think i've and others have touched on this, so i wont go on and drag it threw the mud.
i don't remember who it was that tried to use a windows tablet, good luck. while those can be used, you have to get a specific one and a few of them can't even run accessibility because of the type of chip that was used in the internals. i'm forgetting the name but you are better off sticking with an android or IOS device. i personally recommend an android, but its all your opinion.

Kyle

Would you please, off sight, contact me at . I would like to know where you have acquired all of this knowledge regarding android. Thinking about trying my hand at a nexus 7 but don't have any clue on how to begin or where to look for the literature on how to learn the gestures, accessible applications and customizable features you speak of.I would really Appreciate the contact. -Andrew-

First thing's first.. to

First thing's first.. to those of you who say you have seen Voiceover improvements in iOS 7 with subsequent releases, pleas give more details on this. Honestly… Even though I do not gush over everything Apple does… I really have no reason to switch. I like my iPhone and my Mac just fine. Sure there are still a few things that I go to my Windows PC to take care of… But the vast majority of the time it is the Mac that I use. Incorporating the trackpad into my everyday use of the Mac has made for a much more accessible experience without all those ridiculous key commands. I know that the voiceover keys can be locked… But sometimes I curse the fact that you have to hold down two keys just to navigate to a new element on the screen. VO this… VO that… God forbid we simplify the key commands. But thankfully the trackpad can do a lot of the same things… So sometimes I'll use the voiceover keys to navigate around my dock to find the app I would like to launch… But to launch I don't do a VO space I just double tap on the trackpad. I like to mix it up. As far as my iPhone I just discovered Fleksy yesterday… And to be honest it's really blowing my mind. I think I might be experiencing some little bugs with it, however, but for the most part it is truly amazing. Not to mention the fact that I also just downloaded talking tuner That's a huge plus. It's so nice to be able to independently and accurately tune my guitar. It's not only the iOS that I like, but it's also the the fact that so many third-party apps have been developed for the platform that seriously improve the quality of life for blind and visually impaired people. I've heard that it is much easier to develop an app for the iOS as opposed to android because android has so many different versions floating around out there where as the iOS you just have three or four different versions depending on the device. Also… Triple clicking the home button at the initial start up process of a phone whether you have just reset it… Or you're getting the device for the first time… Should always bring up voice over. Like someone else said, however, you can also use Siri to bring up voiceover… Although this might not work at the initial setup process as you have not told the phone that you want to use Siri yet. Anytime I have encountered the initial setup process on an iPhone triple clicking the home button has always reliably turned on voiceover for me.
And honestly… Compared to the intuitiveness and ease of iOS… Getting into android devices seems a bit daunting. You always hear people talking about "oh… You want to install this… Don't need to install that… Take that out… This device will work… This device won't... "It really gets rather confusing. I'd rather just buy a device from the store that I can be positive is going to work reliably. Despite the very obvious bugs in iOS 7… Apple still seems to be the best choice for me. But if android is the best choice for someone else? That's awesome. I'd like to become more educated on it.
Here's to hoping that Apple doesn't rush future versions of the iOS… And truly takes the time to test their product so they don't gloss over such obvious bugs.
I'll tell you one thing, I'm not updating to Mavericks right away.

siri has to be set up before use:

Siri will not accept input till it is set up. Once it is and it is a voluntary thing just as is voiceover, anyone can command it to do these neat things.

Voice Over or Talk Back

A few days ago I became so frustrated with ios7 on my ipad4 that I bought a Samsung Galaxy. If you think you can take the device out of the box, turn on Talk Back and away you go, you will be disappointed. I will try to be brief with some of my initial experiences. Many pre-installed apps are not Talk Back friendly, like the web browser and Polaris office suite. You will need to hunt for TB friendly alternatives. I am still looking for a document reader that can handle more than just.txt files. Touch navigation is crude and hit-and-miss, for example, tapping on text (or a button) reads that text but if you want to hear it again no amount of tapping will read again. You must tap elsewhere to read something else then you can return to the original text to read again. There is no gesture for continuous reading other than shaking the device which rarely works. Talk Back is definitely a work in progress and I am sure it will improve with future updates, but for now Voice Over wins by a mile. I just hope Apple fixes the bugs in ios7 so I can get back to some frustration free use of my iPad. If you are still thinking of a switch to Android, try and borrow a device or at least ask the dealer to turn on Talk Back and have a play before you buy.

samsung's android skinning

the reason you had so much issue with the galaxy is because samsung does a lot of skinning and custom installing of there devices. with there custom apps, skinns, and plus touch wiz isn't the most tb friendly. your better off with a more stock experience. i will tell you with my nexus 7 i bought. i took it out of the box,, hit the power button, held two fingers on the screen, and i was off and running with talkback. you will see this reflected in my previous posts. yeah, the fact that you can't go and retouch something like that is a little annoying a bit, but thats the beauty of android it will get fixxed really quickly if you report that if you want it. unlike IOS where software is crammed with bugs, and bugs are still rampent 2 years later and never seem to be squashed.

It would be good to have a

It would be good to have a Off topic section in the Apple VIS forums for Android related discussions. People get too oversenstative on here at times but it is intresting to find out what is happening on other platforms with regards to accessability so I can see how Voiceover compares to other platforms

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